Titanium anodizing and durability

[mistermo]

There's a growing craft in aesthetic anodizing of titanium bikes. I've seen some very nice work. However, I've had some anodized parts in the past (not titanium) that haven't stood the test of time (and sunlight) and faded somewhat badly. I would hate to pay for a nice, ti, anodized finish then, a couple years later, have it faded and/or looking shoddy.

Has anodizing become better so that fading isn't the concern it was many years ago? Is titanium a better substrate than Al or other alloys? Putting aside the fading concern, is it as durable than paint after repeated washings?

Thanks in advance for the info, advice and experience of the herd.

[Velocipede]

It comes down to a couple things. How the frame is prepared and how it's anodized. Some companies use better solutions than others. The Multi-Etch solution is one of the best and it's less toxic than others. It give super consistent colors. Titanium Finishing(find them online and IG), they've been doing it for decades and they do A LOT of medical parts. That requires some serious quality there. Check them out. They've done a lot of bike stuff recently including a frame I saw on IG the other day.

[weiwentg]

Quick point of information. Anodizing does use electric current to change the depth of the oxide layer on reactive metals. But there's a big difference between anodizing aluminum and anodizing ti. With aluminum, the oxide layer is porous, and Chris King, White Industries, or whoever else will dye it and clearcoat it. And yes, dyes can fade in the sun.

With ti, there's no dye. The color is generated through interference, as in the physics thing. The color depends on the depth of the oxide layer, and only a limited spectrum of colors are available. Hence, I don't think there's the same sort of concern with anodized ti fading under UV light. It's been previously brought up that it is possible to abrade off that oxide layer, but you'd need to be rubbing it against something abrasive. Thus, anodized ti cages on gravel might not be the greatest idea. I doubt that straight up washing your bike would do anything.

[Velocipede]

Originally Posted by weiwentg

Quick point of information. Anodizing does use electric current to change the depth of the oxide layer on reactive metals. But there's a big difference between anodizing aluminum and anodizing ti. With aluminum, the oxide layer is porous, and Chris King, White Industries, or whoever else will dye it and clearcoat it. And yes, dyes can fade in the sun.

With ti, there's no dye. The color is generated through interference, as in the physics thing. The color depends on the depth of the oxide layer, and only a limited spectrum of colors are available. Hence, I don't think there's the same sort of concern with anodized ti fading under UV light. It's been previously brought up that it is possible to abrade off that oxide layer, but you'd need to be rubbing it against something abrasive. Thus, anodized ti cages on gravel might not be the greatest idea. I doubt that straight up washing your bike would do anything.

Sadly UV light will fade ti anodizing. I've had it happen on frames.

[mj_michigan]

I read an article a while ago where authors from Seven Cycles came against anodizing due to durability concerns.

[tepextate]

I was eyeing No. 22's bikes, in large part due to their beautiful anodization work. Based on this thread, sounds like a buyer should expect that anodization to fade over time?

Not necessarily a big deal. Some would call it patina.

[bikerboy337]

I’ve been looking at having my Saratoga frameworks ti frame anodized as I love the look, interested to follow this thread to hear about anodizing .

Would also love to see what companies are doing this? May think of sending my frame out this winter for a “new” frame feel next spring...


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[ridethecliche]

I guess the anodized ti frame becomes a living work of art with the colors reflecting the life its lived.

[cribbit]

I've been dabbling in doing ano but it's tough to get good colors or the gate.

To my understanding of the process it shouldn't fade from sunlight, but any sort of physical interaction may dull it over time. I would say it's likely to last better than alu anodizing.

[mistermo]

Originally Posted by ridethecliche

I guess the anodized ti frame becomes a living work of art with the colors reflecting the life its lived.

Beausage. First saw this term used by Rivendell years ago. They opined that beausage only applies to natural materials: leather, canvas, wood. Whereas, aged aluminums and plastics only look worn out.

[Tyler Evans]

I'm just gonna chime in here before too much misinformation gets spread around.

Titanium anodization is as durable as the metal itself. As in, if you can scratch the metal itself, you can scratch the anodized surface. The reason why titanium is so nonreactive is that it forms its own oxide layer naturally, essentially creating an oxide skin. To get the colors an oxide layer is simply built up... made thicker. The oxide itself is clear but as you make it thicker it bends the light creating a spectrum much like oil on water. You can imagine the clear oil floating on the surface and the light bouncing off the surface of the water (through the thin layer of oil). This creates an effect similar to how a prism bends light.

That being said a titanium anodized surface does not fade due to UV light. It is an oxide layer on the surface and its thickness is unaffected by UV. Titanium anodized colors are oxide layers that are microns thick and can only be affected by mechanical or chemical means. It is not possible for them to be affected by UV light.

Back in the day people were only able to do the most meager ti anodization, creating the thinnest oxide layers (bronze, blue, purple). These are the most delicate colors on the spectrum and can be affected easily by washing and rubbing. This is what people think of as fading, but it is just a long term small abrasion symptom. Nowadays the metal prep and techniques for anodizing are far more robust creating a durable and vibrant surface that lasts many, many years.

[many_styles]

Awesome, thanks Tyler for chiming in!


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[ridethecliche]

Originally Posted by mistermo

Beausage. First saw this term used by Rivendell years ago. They opined that beausage only applies to natural materials: leather, canvas, wood. Whereas, aged aluminums and plastics only look worn out.

Wabi sabi

[mistermo]

Originally Posted by Tyler Evans

....(bronze, blue, purple). These are the most delicate colors on the spectrum and can be affected easily by washing and rubbing....

Thanks, Tyler! What are the least delicate, most sturdy colors?

Originally Posted by ridethecliche

Wabi sabi

Cool. Looked it up. Like it.

[Tyler Evans]

Originally Posted by mistermo

Thanks, Tyler! What are the least delicate, most sturdy colors?.

The spectrum kinda goes like this (from thinnest to thickest):

Bronze, purple, blue, yellow, pink, teal, green.

Bronze, purple, and blue we considered low voltage.

After blue and before yellow there is a point at which it goes back to almost clear.

Once you start seeing yellow you are entering the high voltage region.

Most commonly you will see yellow, magenta, teal, and then (less often) green.

The higher the voltage, the thicker the oxide, the more "sturdy" the ano.

To get into the high voltage range requires extra prep work and more meticulous attention to procedure and technique, green is the most difficult to achieve of the common colors.

We have been experimenting with what we are calling "ultra-high voltage colors" and have reached a new yellow and pink that are pretty cool, but that is as far as we can get at this point.