Mounting tubeless gravel tires on hookless rims: OK, I give up.

[BumbleBeeDave]

OK, I'm at wit's end trying to put my new Maxxis Rambler 40mm's on Boyd hookless rims.

The tire goes on the rim fine, but it's not fitting tight enough to the sides of the rim to seal enough to pump up the tire to get it to seal to the rim, no matter how fast or hard I pump. Plus I can't figure out any way to manipulate the new tire to spread it out to the rim walls.

I'm replacing worn out Ramblers in the same size, so I know it can work, but I didn't install that first set. I've tried the soapy water and that hasn't worked, but it sure does blow a lot of bubbles when I try to pump up the tire!

I'm finding nothing online that addresses installing tubeless tires specifically on hookless rims. Is installation supposed to be the same as a regular hooked rim?

Paceline Brain Trust, any tips appreciated!

BBD

[prototoast]

Are you using a compressor or 2-stage pump?

Have you removed the valve core before inflating to seat the bead?

[benb]

You might need a compressor.

But that said for really tough tires with a compressor this is what I do:

1) Install a tube just to seat the tire on both beads (is this safe on a hookless rim? In any case don't inflate to full pressure anyway, just seat the beads)

2) break only one bead, remove tube, be very careful not to break the other side

3) Put the bead you broke back in

4) optionally soap that side of the rim. Look carefully at the rim profile and/or any special instructions for that rim.. sometimes they want the tube left a certain place for seating

5) Take a 5 gallon bucket. Put the rim on the bucket with the seated bead facing up

6) Now try to air up the tire... the trick here is gravity is pulling slightly on the bead you are trying to seat

My 4.5" fat bike tires w/80mm rims require this kind of treatment to seat. PITA, and also requires a mega blast of air with the valve core removed and a super high flow tool on the compressor (not threaded on). But I generally can't get it to work without this kind of gravity assist. The bead has to move further on those rims than the width of a road rim, and there is no channel built into the rims for the tube to ride up.

I guess I am assuming the tube step is OK, cause you still carry a tube for backup in the case of a flat on any road tubeless setup right?

[Dave]

I always use a compressor with a blow-off nozzle that has a pointed rubber tip. Take the valve core out and a quick blast of at least 70 psi should seat the tire. It might help to fill the installed tire on the floor with some pressure on it to spread the beads out.

[GiantSmokey]

Definitely try soaping. It makes a huge difference. Also it is worth it to get a blaster like and AirShot or one of the track pumps with a reservoir. I’ve only gotten them to seat with a standard pump one time ever.

[MikeD]

Try the stuff above. If that does not work, build up the rim bed with successive layers of rim tape to better fit the tire bead diameter.

[bshell]

[QUOTE=BumbleBeeDave;3428870] no matter how fast or hard I pump.

This is extremely challenging, verging on impossible w/ a standard floor pump.

(someone is bound to correct me -have at it)

[FastCanon]

Schwalbe Boster tank might work. I have used it for tires as big as 38cc though and I usually pump up to 140psi and it works. Supposed to be 160psi but I never needed it to be that high. Also, you need to remove your valve so more air can quickly rush into the tire. It was only $60 when I bought it on Amazon so not a big purchase.

Oh and the inner width of the rim was 25mm

[HenryA]

Take a tip from the old ghetto tubeless days.

You need about a 1 inch wide strap perhaps nylon webbing or a ratchet strap. Put it around the circumference of the mounted tire and pull it up snug. Pay attention to the position of the bead to the rim. With the valve core out hit it with 100 or 120 pounds of air from a compressor. That should blow it out. Carefully add your sealant and screw in the valve core then re-inflate.

[.RJ]

Originally Posted by HenryA

Take a tip from the old ghetto tubeless days.

You need about a 1 inch wide strap perhaps nylon webbing or a ratchet strap. Put it around the circumference of the mounted tire and pull it up snug. Pay attention to the position of the bead to the rim. With the valve core out hit it with 100 or 120 pounds of air from a compressor. That should blow it out. Carefully add your sealant and screw in the valve core then re-inflate.

You dont need ratchet straps anymore, no way.

A blast pump will also take care of this and be a lot cheaper and quieter than a compressor.

[Likes2ridefar]

Edit: Looks like Benb said it already! Use a tube to pop the bead and leave one side on removing it. Should go on easy then. I’ve also pushed the bead on with a lever on one side to make it easier…

[EB]

Originally Posted by BumbleBeeDave

no matter how fast or hard I pump.

This is extremely challenging, verging on impossible w/ a standard floor pump.

(someone is bound to correct me -have at it)

Completely tire dependent. The tires and rims I use, I can easily seat with just a floor pump (hookless or not). Definitely not verging on impossible. If the tires won't seat with a floor pump, I swear off that brand and look for different tires. I do not have time in my life to devote to difficult tubeless combos.

Suggestions I have for OP:
- another layer of tape to tighten up the fit.
- take the valve core out if you haven't, to increase air flow
- make sure the bead has fully enclosed the end of the valve on both sides, and you're not just blowing air out into nothing.

I generally have good luck with Maxxis, so it's possible this is a Boyd problem. Tolerances for tubeless are a challenge for some manufacturers.

[dolface]

Leave it on the rim and set it out in the sun for ~30 minutes to warm up/get hot. Then do the soapy water and try again?

[coachboyd]

I've had the same issue with those same tires.
Here is what I would recommend. If the tire is super loose and won't inflate due to air escaping, you need to make your outer diameter of the center channel slightly larger.

I would completely re-tape the wheels with brand new tubeless tape. As tubeless tape ages is really pushes down into that center channel which effectively lower the OD of the bottom of the center channel.

Remove your current tape, clean the rims really good with rubbing alcohol and a rag, let it completely dry.
Then, when installing the new tape go for three wraps instead of the typical two wraps we did before shipping out the wheels. This will give you a little added OD on the center channel and you'll likely find you can inflate with a floor pump.

[rowebr]

As you say the tire beads aren't fitting super tight in the rim bed, so I agree with the folks suggesting to add another wrap (or two!) of tubeless tape. Then soapy water on the beads, try inflating with inner tube first. If you want to get those tires to pop into place just with a floor pump, the fit has gotta be tight.