E-bikes and exercise intensity

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by Tony

These are folks who have never been on a e mtb, I know, I was one of them.

I think that's addressed later in the article. I think there was a shift in attitudes, although I think it broke down along age lines, with older riders more in favor.

[pdmtong]

on the e-road bike front (see Pelican's comments as well!)

https://www.velonews.com/2019/11/bik...ts-that_502712

from Specialized
“There is no question, e-road bikes can make climbs easier, and for many riders that is a wonderful thing,” Edwards says. “But with the right e-road bike, an e-road bike that still feels like a great road bike, we’ve found that riders don’t climb any easier, they just go faster and climb farther. Riders who love the challenge of climbing will find that a great e-road bike opens up more great climbing. It does not eliminate the joy or effort, it amplifies it.”

from Trek
“First, I think we need to establish that everyone rides for a different reason, so saying that road riding is all about suffering is just one perspective,” Albergh says. “Second, I think there’s a tremendous amount of privilege in saying that only riders with a certain fitness level are capable of enjoying certain rides and climbs. We’re finding that the riders that can most enjoy an e-road experience are seeing the value pretty readily. We just need to get the haters—who realistically, are happy on their ‘acoustic’ bikes—to be more welcoming to everyone.”

[Burnette]

Originally Posted by pdmtong

on the e-road bike front (see Pelican's comments as well!)

https://www.velonews.com/2019/11/bik...ts-that_502712

from Specialized
“There is no question, e-road bikes can make climbs easier, and for many riders that is a wonderful thing,” Edwards says. “But with the right e-road bike, an e-road bike that still feels like a great road bike, we’ve found that riders don’t climb any easier, they just go faster and climb farther. Riders who love the challenge of climbing will find that a great e-road bike opens up more great climbing. It does not eliminate the joy or effort, it amplifies it.”

from Trek
“First, I think we need to establish that everyone rides for a different reason, so saying that road riding is all about suffering is just one perspective,” Albergh says. “Second, I think there’s a tremendous amount of privilege in saying that only riders with a certain fitness level are capable of enjoying certain rides and climbs. We’re finding that the riders that can most enjoy an e-road experience are seeing the value pretty readily. We just need to get the haters—who realistically, are happy on their ‘acoustic’ bikes—to be more welcoming to everyone.”

I agree with the sentiment. Ebikes may be the thing that gets my wife to riding. We have 11, 12, 15% hills here and she will never be into cycling enough to gain the fitness to ride the terrain, she will always be a casual rider and ebikes offer a way for her to join something that was unaccessible before.

She enjoys cycling but, as the link states, could care less about the suffering we do. And I don't think any less of her for it

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by pdmtong

on the e-road bike front (see Pelican's comments as well!)

https://www.velonews.com/2019/11/bik...ts-that_502712

from Specialized
“There is no question, e-road bikes can make climbs easier, and for many riders that is a wonderful thing,” Edwards says. “But with the right e-road bike, an e-road bike that still feels like a great road bike, we’ve found that riders don’t climb any easier, they just go faster and climb farther. Riders who love the challenge of climbing will find that a great e-road bike opens up more great climbing. It does not eliminate the joy or effort, it amplifies it.”

from Trek
“First, I think we need to establish that everyone rides for a different reason, so saying that road riding is all about suffering is just one perspective,” Albergh says. “Second, I think there’s a tremendous amount of privilege in saying that only riders with a certain fitness level are capable of enjoying certain rides and climbs. We’re finding that the riders that can most enjoy an e-road experience are seeing the value pretty readily. We just need to get the haters—who realistically, are happy on their ‘acoustic’ bikes—to be more welcoming to everyone.”

In related news, the cattle industry has just released a study showing that beef is a great source of protein

I've got nothing against eBikes. For many people, they make a lot of sense. But, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the big bike manufacturers have some vested interest in their success...

[Burnette]

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

In related news, the cattle industry has just released a study showing that beef is a great source of protein

I've got nothing against eBikes. For many people, they make a lot of sense. But, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the big bike manufacturers have some vested interest in their success...

This is the same wrong headed argument people here try to make about disc brakes on bicycles.

Consumers drive the market and ebikes have found an audience. Manufacturers are filling that need. You see CUV/SUV models increase and sedan models discontinued because people are buying more of the former.

It's an insult to say people are buying ebikes just because of industry hype. If we were to ask members here to stick out their tongues we would see red, purple and green from the Kool Aid drank of their favorite brands that hyped their product. And there's nothing wrong with that, just don't disparage another for buying the brands and items they like.

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by Burnette

This is the same wrong headed argument people here try to make about disc brakes on bicycles.

Consumers drive the market and ebikes have found an audience. Manufacturers are filling that need. You see CUV/SUV models increase and sedan models discontinued because people are buying more of the former.

It's an insult to say people are buying ebikes just because of industry hype. If we were to ask members here to stick out their tongues we would see red, purple and green from the Kool Aid drank of their favorite brands that hyped their product. And there's nothing wrong with that, just don't disparage another for buying the brands and items they like.

I never said anything about industry hype. I think eBikes are the wave of the future. They're coming. On the whole, given the environmental benefits, I think it's a net positive.

I merely said that quoting the bike industry about the positive aspects of eBikes is going to yield a certain result.

[AngryScientist]

warning: i had to close the last e-bike thread because it spiraled into a big argument. let's not go down that same road.

Burnette: I'm looking at you. You don't get to decide who's opinion is "wrong headed". Discuss the issue, not attack other member's opinions.

[Burnette]

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

I never said anything about industry hype. I think eBikes are the wave of the future. They're coming. On the whole, given the environmental benefits, I think it's a net positive.

I merely said that quoting the bike industry about the positive aspects of eBikes is going to yield a certain result.

Ah, but isn't it an old trope that suggest that people are like sheep, led only by hype?

It gives the industry too much credit and consumers not enough. Industries of every field have hyped products that companies have spent millions of dollars on only to see them fail. If we don't buy they don't sell and we don't buy if we don't want.

And of course companies will indeed hype their products. Everything in our cupboards, garages and closets is and was hyped.

Funny that the link pdmtong provided about said something about suffering. It's part of cycling for me, being endorphin junky who pushes his own limits (it's a short trip ), but I get that cycling is broader than my personal chosen way to enjoy it.

As you say companies are investing big in ebikes but it's not a foregone conclusion they'll be a hit, nor do they know exactly how big or small actual demand will be. With all business it's a gamble and some will win, some will lose.

Ebikes don't intrigue me as a consumer myself but they do as a gear geek. Motors, wheels and gears and I'll read about them even if they're not for me.

[Burnette]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

warning: i had to close the last e-bike thread because it spiraled into a big argument. let's not go down that same road.

Burnette: I'm looking at you. You don't get to decide who's opinion is "wrong headed". Discuss the issue, not attack other member's opinions.

Not attacking at all AS, I believe in inclusivity and the notion that some are just falling for industry hype in their purchases versus what everyone else here is doing wasn't a fair assessment.

Cycling is many things to many people and it's definition will seemingly expand with advent of ebikes. I hope we can be welcoming to it as they will allow more people to enjoy our interest. With more people maybe more attention will be given to our cause in infrastructure and making new laws.

[benb]

There are a couple other big negatives not being discussed..

eBikes surely have a higher environmental impact.. you're riding around with a big LiIon battery and who knows what other exotic materials in the motor that have an additional environmental impact over a regular bicycle.

It is kind of hard for me to believe these aren't being seen as a quick buck by the bike companies. Specialized & Trek are selling "whoa" expensive eBikes where I am. My guess is the margin is very healthy and they're super excited there's a new segment of consumer they can upsell a $3000-5000 eBike too who would have bought a $500 hybrid before. It's a whole new segment of people who think we're ridiculous to buy expensive high performance pedal bikes.. but these new bikes make it easy.. so you can self justify the price as it being cheaper than a motorcycle.

[fa63]

If e-bikes are seen as replacing regular bikes, then their environmental footprint will indeed be worse. But if they can replace a percentage of car trips, even for a relatively small number of overall purchasers, then they will likely have a net positive environmental impact.

For reference, almost 40% of urban local car trips in the US are less than 3 miles in length. In places like Copenhagen and Amsterdam, well over 50% of such trips are covered by bike. In a place that is not flat, an e-bike can reduce barriers to cycling.

This is assuming we can provide adequate cycling infrastructure, which also has the benefit of being far cheaper and environmentally friendly as compared to building more vehicle lanes.

And then there are the health benefits as well.

[XXtwindad]

I have a question for the recreational eBikers. Not so much the commuters, which I can completely understand. (I also think the inclusion/exclusion angle has been covered ad nauseum, so no reason to rehash that...)

The article pdmtong linked was interesting. Part of the (stated) impetus for the new eBikes was to take recreational cycling out of the "Sufferfest" domain.

But for me, climbing up hills in not about suffering. Or racing. It's about clearing my head and giving me balance. It's my Zen. Life slows down for me when I'm on my bike.

It would seem logical that an eBike might be the antithesis of that. It has the capability to go much faster, after all. If I could go 25 MPH on a bike, why would I go ten MPH? That just seems to be a matter of human nature.

Does eBiking provide the same amount of mental satisfaction? I'd like to hear from any Forum members who have used an eBike for longer recreational rides.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

I have a question for the recreational eBikers. Not so much the commuters, which I can completely understand. (I also think the inclusion/exclusion angle has been covered ad nauseum, so no reason to rehash that...)

The article pdmtong linked was interesting. Part of the (stated) impetus for the new eBikes was to take recreational cycling out of the "Sufferfest" domain.

But for me, climbing up hills in not about suffering. Or racing. It's about clearing my head and giving me balance. It's my Zen. Life slows down for me when I'm on my bike.

It would seem logical that an eBike might be the antithesis of that. It has the capability to go much faster, after all. If I could go 25 MPH on a bike, why would I go ten MPH? That just seems to be a matter of human nature.

Does eBiking provide the same amount of mental satisfaction? I'd like to hear from any Forum members who have used an eBike for longer recreational rides.

I think you're asking the wrong crowd. Even activities that austensibly seem similar may attract different crowds and people, who are looking to get different types of satisfaction from them. For example, all types of skiing involve gliding on snow across natural terrain with your feet fastened to long skinny boards. But there's only marginal overlap among the people who do alpine skiing, ski touring, and backcountry skiing. And that's okay. Since most of us here have been cycling since before e-bikes became a thing, we are probably not the same crowd of people that are interested in e-bikes. And that's okay, too.

[nublar]

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

I have a question for the recreational eBikers. Not so much the commuters, which I can completely understand. (I also think the inclusion/exclusion angle has been covered ad nauseum, so no reason to rehash that...)

The article pdmtong linked was interesting. Part of the (stated) impetus for the new eBikes was to take recreational cycling out of the "Sufferfest" domain.

But for me, climbing up hills in not about suffering. Or racing. It's about clearing my head and giving me balance. It's my Zen. Life slows down for me when I'm on my bike.

It would seem logical that an eBike might be the antithesis of that. It has the capability to go much faster, after all. If I could go 25 MPH on a bike, why would I go ten MPH? That just seems to be a matter of human nature.

Does eBiking provide the same amount of mental satisfaction? I'd like to hear from any Forum members who have used an eBike for longer recreational rides.

It's fun but I don't get the same "runners high" as I do on the acoustic bike. After doing 30 miles in about an hour on the ebike, I still feel like I've barely ridden at all and I barely get out of HR zone 2 on the ebike.

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by nublar

It's fun but I don't get the same "runners high" as I do on the acoustic bike. After doing 30 miles in about an hour on the ebike, I still feel like I've barely ridden at all and I barely get out of HR zone 2 on the ebike.

Yeah. This is what I wanted to know. Thanks.