My experience with Enigma

[Matt92037]

Enigma weighed in with this response on a different forum. Not super helpful….

Enigma
Whilst we won’t comment on individual cases we would like to re-iterate our position on warranty to original owners. If within the warranty period or lifespan of one of our frames we see evidence of manufacturing or material defects that has then caused a failure, we will undertake a repair or offer a replacement. It is important to realise that the expected life of a product is not always a quantifiable thing. If a frame has had an especially tough life, been ridden hard, crashed, abused or used contrary to its intended use then its lifespan can be greatly reduced. In these circumstances we will extend an offer under our crash replacement schemeand in certain cases we will go beyond this. We pride ourselves on our customer service and stand by our products. Full terms and conditions can be found on our website.

Originally Posted by reuben

We're only getting one side of the story, but the pics and story don't look good at all.

Assuming that we have a reasonably accurate account, both written and visual, I wouldn't take a new frame for myself even at a discounted price, nor would I buy one and knowingly foist it on an unsuspecting buyer.

[woolly]

Originally Posted by Matthew

To those suggesting he take the "generous offer " of buying another frame from them, would you? Even if he sells it? I wouldn't give them another dime. It broke at 5 years!! And then again later at a dropout. And then Again at the bullsh*t first repair. And then they basically tell him to kiss off. But sure, here's another $600 of my hard earned money for something that may fail tomorrow.

Actually, this is exactly what I would do. I would invest the $600, get a brand new frame, and then be completely *done* with them. I would then take that brand new frame (unbuilt & unridden) and sell it. I would then dial up Steve Hampsten, or Carl Strong, or Mike Zanconato (or if a somewhat larger operation desired, Moots), and have a great-riding frame from a skilled & reputable builder, at the least net cost possible.

Looking at this as objectively as one can, what other alternative leaves the OP more "whole" than this (since it's been made clear a replacement frame would not be provided no-cost)? Alas, based on the read here, the ship may have sailed on this being an available option.

[Peter P.]

Enigma's reply was all legal dodging.

Send them links to all the threads created as a result of Sam's bad experience.

Then Sam, go buy something else.

[p nut]

Originally Posted by woolly

Actually, this is exactly what I would do. I would invest the $600, get a brand new frame, and then be completely *done* with them. I would then take that brand new frame (unbuilt & unridden) and sell it.

Fiscally speaking, this makes the most sense. But I don’t think I could do it on principle.

Originally Posted by nmrt

dont. your firstborn will hate you for it.
nmrt = nuclear magnetic resonance. added the "t" because "nmr" was taken.

My father was a analytical chemist/professor. I remember going into his lab when I was a kid and looking at the giant machines. Had to take off my Casio G Shock watch every time I went in.

[Sam Walker]

Thanks for all the replies. I do realise how it can look when you’re a first time poster. I’ve been on various forums for a long time, but yes, The Paceline is new to me.

It’s hard for a stranger to establish credentials to give a better feel for their trustworthiness. If it helps:

I’ve been writing about cycling since the late 90s, though admittedly in a niche way. I had columns in a couple of national magazines, and have also written the odd piece for UK newspapers (exhibits A and B).

Years ago I started an archive of cycling articles (now set in aspic here), and managed to get permission from all kinds of authors to reprint their stuff, including Richard Ballantine and our current prime minister. Once upon a time I got Sheldon Brown to register and post on a forum I used to run. For a little while I worked with Guy Andrews, who would later go on to be founding editor of Rouleur magazine. That’s about the limit of the names I can drop.

None of this is to brag. I have not had a major career in the cycling world. I possess no great technical expertise, but have been around enough people who do so that more than a little was bound to have rubbed off.

For the most part I am my own mechanic. I’m usually pretty good at diagnosing noises. I’ve swapped out bottom brackets beyond counting.

Finally, there’s my rabbit as a character witness.



There is a kind of character in thy life, that to the observer doth thy history, fully unfold
(Both Chompsky and I will admit to only nibbling Shakespeare.)

Originally Posted by Matt92037

Enigma weighed in with this response on a different forum. Not super helpful….

A copy of my dissection of their response. See also downthread on that site.

I did tell them that I wouldn’t be staying quiet. I don’t think they took me seriously.

[soulspinner]

Originally Posted by woolly

Actually, this is exactly what I would do. I would invest the $600, get a brand new frame, and then be completely *done* with them. I would then take that brand new frame (unbuilt & unridden) and sell it. I would then dial up Steve Hampsten, or Carl Strong, or Mike Zanconato (or if a somewhat larger operation desired, Moots), and have a great-riding frame from a skilled & reputable builder, at the least net cost possible.

Looking at this as objectively as one can, what other alternative leaves the OP more "whole" than this (since it's been made clear a replacement frame would not be provided no-cost)? Alas, based on the read here, the ship may have sailed on this being an available option.

This was my first thought as well. I noticed Carl, whom I bought a steel foco from in 2003 has taken to only warrantying butted ti frames for 5 years, I believe. Hampsten doesnt offer butted ti on the website.

[rallizes]

Originally Posted by 54ny77

Freebie repairs?

Man anything remotely like that stuff is an outright replacement. Free.

Don't know anything about enigma, but I have a pal with a ti Spectrum, for example, that's got at least 2x those miles and has only needed a repaint.

Am sick of this "omerta" of boutique builders. Folks online S&%@! all over a big box brand like Specialized, for example, and even vitriol for Serotta (but for the designs and company missteps, never the fab quality), but heaven forbid some boutique builder get called out for crap product or lousy customer service.

thread was closed across the hall

[weaponsgrade]

Enigma’s response seems cut and pasted from every other corporation that tries to shift blame onto the consumer when their product fails unreasonably. None of those failures look like crash damage to this arm chair metallurgist. Enigma should’ve stepped up at year 5 and done a proper repair or replace.

[Jeff N.]

I wouldn't demand a repair or replace.....I'd demand a complete refund! But...good luck with that.

[prototoast]

I have mixed feelings on this, though most of them could have been solved if Enigma just say they offered a 5 year warranty instead of "lifetime."

First, the fact that it's cracking in both the dropout and the bottom bracket sure seems like there was a manufacturing issue.

On the other hand, I personally consider any bike I own to be fully depreciated after about 20,000 miles, so other than their claims of a "lifetime" warranty, I don't think I'd be terribly upset by a bike being scrap by 40,000 miles.

I currently own an Enigma Esprit that I bought second hand. I've only put a few hundred miles on it since I got it, but it seems to be a good bike. Well-constructed, and rides well too. I paid more than 600 gbp for it used, and considered that a fair price. I can understand frustration with the company over their warranty that didn't live up to expectations, but I don't see any reason not to take a cheap frame and sell it for a small profit. Any second-hand buyer wouldn't expect a lifetime warranty anyway.

[bking]

Originally Posted by soulspinner

This was my first thought as well. I noticed Carl, whom I bought a steel foco from in 2003 has taken to only warrantying butted ti frames for 5 years, I believe. Hampsten doesnt offer butted ti on the website.

5 years is a solid warranty. Carl's a smart man, great builder.

[R3awak3n]

The whole bike warranty thing is a problem in this industry and a lot of bike companies. You have companies that actually stick by the warranty and will do anything to make the customer happy, then you have the companies that don't and warranty (be it lifetime or extended or even just normal warranty) means absolutely nothing. They offer these long warranties so that you feel ok spending thousands on a frame or bike, you think hey, why not buy this new bike since I feel safe that anything happens I will be covered, however what happens is just anything they will blame the customer and it will be what it is since what happened was caused by something u did.

But you live and learn, you will eventually deal with a company that will stand by their warranty and you will buy from them an stop buying from the one that blamed you for the problem.

[flying]

Originally Posted by p nut

Fiscally speaking, this makes the most sense. But I don’t think I could do it on principle.

About giving them $600 then selling I agree on both principle & fairness to next customer.
If this is how their bikes hold up I wouldn't want to pass the headache of dealing with this type of warranty on to another

No instead I would call it done & scrap it or even pay a competent welder to fix it.

But yes they would see no more $$$ from me....kick me once shame on you.. kick me twice shame on me

[peanutgallery]

I'd say this one is done, too

The builder has passed (rip), the company has changed hands and the current owner has provided a viable option. Take it and ride off into the sunset. If your principles paralyze that concept, then that'll cost you way more than the 600. But if that's important to you... you do you, it's only $. Most of us will be worm dirt in 30 to 40 years

Originally Posted by rallizes

thread was closed across the hall

[cnighbor1]

Ti welding if not done bathed in Argon gas oxygen in the air gets into the weld and causes Ti to become brittle and fail
Sure looks like that happened to yours