OT: "The Miseducation of the American Boy."

[William]

My mother was a single parent, working full time, and raising two kids. She wasn't college educated (that happened after she retired) but she worked her way up from a bank teller to ultimately being a VP in the banking system. At that time it was a staunchly male profession. She did run into road blocks and at times felt that male counterparts were paid more for the same positions. The thing was she always found ways around the road blocks on merit or found another position at another bank that allowed her to continue upward. Thus the reason we moved quite a bit growing up. When the time came that she decided to retire she had gone as far as she wanted to go. Some on the outside may look at that situation and think "Well, she never became a bank president...must have hit the glass ceiling." She just never wanted that position. Had she wanted it she would have found a way to make it happen standing on her experience and expertise in the field.

The time frame started in the late 60's and she comfortably retired in the 90's. I honestly think she likely encountered way more resistance on her journey at that time then would happen today. She even saw a large shift in that field from the time she started until she retired. I'm not saying women today don't encounter it, but things have markedly improved since then with workplace laws and acceptance of women in what were male dominated fields.








W.

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by William

My mother was a single parent, working full time, and raising two kids. She wasn't college educated (that happened after she retired) but she worked her way up from a bank teller to ultimately being a VP in the banking system. At that time it was a staunchly male profession. She did run into road blocks and at times felt that male counterparts were paid more for the same positions. The thing was she always found ways around the road blocks on merit or found another position at another bank that allowed her to continue upward. Thus the reason we moved quite a bit growing up. When the time came that she decided to retire she had gone as far as she wanted to go. Some on the outside may look at that situation and think "Well, she never became a bank president...must have hit the glass ceiling." She just never wanted that position. Had she wanted it she would have found a way to make it happen standing on her experience and expertise in the field.

The time frame started in the late 60's and she comfortably retired in the 90's. I honestly think she likely encountered way more resistance on her journey at that time then would happen today. She even saw a large shift in that field from the time she started until she retired. I'm not saying women today don't encounter it, but things have markedly improved since then with workplace laws and acceptance of women in what were male dominated fields.








W.

Cool post. Lots of unsung heroes in this world. Your Mother is evidently one of them. "Feminism" has many permutations.

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

This is some reactionary both sides-ism. The onus is on men to change their behavior in aggregate towards women, both in the micro and the macro. However one defines it, whether someone sees that as smashing the patriarchy or simply demanding a more equitable seat at the table. That means everything from ensuring victims of sexual and domestic violence are heard and taken seriously, to efforts in the workplace to ensure women are paid the same for the same work as men.

The underlying premise of this line of thought is that we live in a society without broad structural gender bias, and that's simply not true.

Gotta agree with Flash here. I don't believe that rectifying a long history of second class citizenship (and much worse) equates to the American male being under seige.

Somewhere between the "boys will be boys" attitude and the La-La Land Bay Area Koolaid of "all gender is a construct" is some truth.

[marciero]

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

Gotta agree with Flash here. I don't believe that rectifying a long history of second class citizenship (and much worse) equates to the American male being under seige.

Somewhere between the "boys will be boys" attitude and the La-La Land Bay Area Koolaid of "all gender is a construct" is some truth.

Funny you mention the Bay Area, which by reports seems to be a bastion of bro-ism in tech. It's a whole new era of gender and culture bias. More generally, and going to bigbill's remarks, the challenges and barriers facing women entering and pursuing STEM disciplines has been documented for decades. It really is surprising how little things have changed, even though things have changed a lot.

[joosttx]

Originally Posted by marciero

Funny you mention the Bay Area, which by reports seems to be a bastion of bro-ism in tech. It's a whole new era of gender and culture bias. More generally, and going to bigbill's remarks, the challenges and barriers facing women entering and pursuing STEM disciplines has been documented for decades. It really is surprising how little things have changed, even though things have changed a lot.

My wife takes on the biggest, the brightest and best bro’s in a bro industry. And she usually wins. She is she- meaning she is herself. She is the youngest and only female equity partner in her firm in its 30 plus year history. Our kids are friends with a kids whose Moms are CEO’s, VPs and all the other high end titles. And they and us seem to being able to balance our lives. Things are changing and I see the tipping happening very soon.

[marciero]

Originally Posted by joosttx

My wife takes on the biggest, the brightest and best bro’s in a bro industry. And she usually wins. She is she- meaning she is herself. She is the youngest and only female equity partner in her firm in its 30 plus year history. Our kids are friends with a kids whose Moms are CEO’s, VPs and all the other high end titles. And they and us seem to being able to balance our lives. Things are changing and I see the tipping happening very soon.

Impressive. In the academe we like to think we are different, and in a lot of ways we are. Yes easy for me to say as a non gender, social, or ethnically marginalized person, but In my department, in a STEM discipline, half the faculty are women, and we actively seek to have them mentor and serve as role models for female students, much as I’m sure your wife and friends serve as models of successful women in trad male fields or roles.

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by joosttx

My wife takes on the biggest, the brightest and best bro’s in a bro industry. And she usually wins. She is she- meaning she is herself. She is the youngest and only female equity partner in her firm in its 30 plus year history. Our kids are friends with a kids whose Moms are CEO’s, VPs and all the other high end titles. And they and us seem to being able to balance our lives. Things are changing and I see the tipping happening very soon.

You need to trademark this.

[Kirk007]

In my nonprofit conservation world women are beginning to dominate the ranks. Out of any ten qualified candidates that we see for positions, I would guesstimate that 7 are women. Of these a large number has degrees in biological or environmental sciences. And at many law schools, class composition, at least when I was teaching, and I suspect the trend continues, women out number men in the classes.

The bro culture in my fields is dying out as the stereotypic alpha males retire or choose not to make the changes to adjust to new workplace dynamics.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

[Gummee]

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

Gotta agree with Flash here. I don't believe that rectifying a long history of second class citizenship (and much worse) equates to the American male being under seige.

Have you been paying attention to all the ads showing men as incompetent, stupid, etc? I'd say there's a war on men on.

Men and women are indeed different. Not better. Not worse. Different.

M

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by Gummee

Have you been paying attention to all the ads showing men as incompetent, stupid, etc? I'd say there's a war on men on.

Men and women are indeed different. Not better. Not worse. Different.

M

Not by a long shot, no.

[mistermo]

Originally Posted by bigbill

I was on track to retire as a Navy Captain about now. In 2011, I didn't like how my son was behaving and the now-ex had essentially stopped parenting. I retired the next year which was the earliest I could punch out. From 2012 until he graduated HS in 2018, my focus was totally on him. We talked every afternoon about homework, school, life, etc. After about a year, he opened up and our talks got better. At 16, we sat down and put together a plan for college and all the things he needed to do and the pitfalls he needed to avoid. There were setbacks but more progress, mostly from what he learned from the setbacks. I taught him to respect women and how to be a gentleman without being overly patronizing. Lots of trial and error but I am so immensely proud of the person he has become. He'll turn 21 this October and I plan on flying out to MD so he can buy me a beer in downtown Annapolis.

Bravo! Parenting is about time. Give them your time and attention, and they will be rewarded, along with our community. Well done, Sir!

[mistermo]

Originally Posted by Bruce K

Middle school girls are far more mean/cruel than boys

At my daughter's school, there was a serious episode of bullying where a boy ended up leaving the school. The school brought in an "expert" and all parents were required to attend. The interesting part to me was the different styles of bullying between boys and girls. The general sentiment was that girls use psychological bullying in very destructive ways, that leave lasting damage which is far worse than boys. Boys, use more physical styles of bullying, but when it's done, it's over. Of course, these are generalizations, but the takeaway was that bullying with girls creates deeper wounds, lasting longer. And unlike boys, it's often harder to see, since it's occurring out of sight for most of us.

[FlashUNC]

Originally Posted by Gummee

Have you been paying attention to all the ads showing men as incompetent, stupid, etc? I'd say there's a war on men on.

Men and women are indeed different. Not better. Not worse. Different.

M

There's a world of difference between some stereotypical mockery in a commercial and say:

-- How our justice system handles rape and sexual violence complaints.
-- Disproportionate representation in government, at all levels.
-- Lower pay for the same work. And if there is pay equality, there's that pesky glass ceiling.

These differences of kind, not magnitude over some stupid ad.

[ColonelJLloyd]

Originally Posted by William

Engaged fathers/parents and mentor programs go a long way. I remeber the Big Brother programs back in the day.

This is a great organization. I would encourage anyone who can possible make the time commitment to volunteer.

[Black Dog]

Originally Posted by mistermo

At my daughter's school, there was a serious episode of bullying where a boy ended up leaving the school. The school brought in an "expert" and all parents were required to attend. The interesting part to me was the different styles of bullying between boys and girls. The general sentiment was that girls use psychological bullying in very destructive ways, that leave lasting damage which is far worse than boys. Boys, use more physical styles of bullying, but when it's done, it's over. Of course, these are generalizations, but the takeaway was that bullying with girls creates deeper wounds, lasting longer. And unlike boys, it's often harder to see, since it's occurring out of sight for most of us.

This is generally not the case. The psychological effects on boys are deep and long lasting. Just not obvious since they are often well hidden.