OT: "The Miseducation of the American Boy."

[redir]

I didn't read all the responses so sorry if this is repetitious but I am kind of surprised that the topic of pornography was not brought up in that article. I mean when I was a kid in the 80's we would steal porn mags and hide them in our tree forts in the woods and engage in all kinds of toxic masculinity but by today's standards that was normal. But I do wonder what the ubiquity of porn does to young boys, and girls for that matter. And after the dawn of the Internet there has been a sort of arms race of porn. As what was shocking 30 years ago is practically seen on television today. So porn represents a completely unrealistic narrative of what it's really like between loving couples. and so young boys understanding and expectations are even that much more distorted.

[goonster]

Originally Posted by redir

I am kind of surprised that the topic of pornography was not brought up in that article.

Haven't read it yet, but according to this interview it's a key conclusion in Peggy Orenstein's book. Not just the ubiquity, but the content has also changed dramatically in the last thirty years.

The notion that this book is some sort of man-hating screed is preposterous.

[MattTuck]

Originally Posted by redir

I didn't read all the responses so sorry if this is repetitious but I am kind of surprised that the topic of pornography was not brought up in that article. I mean when I was a kid in the 80's we would steal porn mags and hide them in our tree forts in the woods and engage in all kinds of toxic masculinity but by today's standards that was normal. But I do wonder what the ubiquity of porn does to young boys, and girls for that matter. And after the dawn of the Internet there has been a sort of arms race of porn. As what was shocking 30 years ago is practically seen on television today. So porn represents a completely unrealistic narrative of what it's really like between loving couples. and so young boys understanding and expectations are even that much more distorted.

I finally got around to reading this piece. Thanks for posting Josh. As a new Dad of a boy and a girl, it is certainly an intimidating time to raise children. If for no other reason than a lot of the technology is so new, that doctors don't even have recommendations because they haven't studied long term effects of (for instance) social media yet.

On the topic of porn, ah yes... I came from the generation where you would find old mags in the woods... I do think that is part of it, but I also find it interesting, in a time when information has never been more accessible that there is still so much "unknown" to these young men.

My big take-away is that I will remind my son frequently about the traits that are important, and start from an early age talking about emotions.

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by goonster

Haven't read it yet, but according to this interview it's a key conclusion in Peggy Orenstein's book. Not just the ubiquity, but the content has also changed dramatically in the last thirty years.

The notion that this book is some sort of man-hating screed is preposterous.

I feel we're drifting with the porn stuff. I can only comment on the article itself, which didn't focus on porn. I also unequivocally stated that I didn't think the author was guilty of "man hating." I do think she was guilty of sloppy and sensationalistic journalism, and I'll stand by that.

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by mistermo

At my daughter's school, there was a serious episode of bullying where a boy ended up leaving the school. The school brought in an "expert" and all parents were required to attend. The interesting part to me was the different styles of bullying between boys and girls. The general sentiment was that girls use psychological bullying in very destructive ways, that leave lasting damage which is far worse than boys. Boys, use more physical styles of bullying, but when it's done, it's over. Of course, these are generalizations, but the takeaway was that bullying with girls creates deeper wounds, lasting longer. And unlike boys, it's often harder to see, since it's occurring out of sight for most of us.

LOTS of truth here. As the father of twin girls my fears are (far and away)

1) Social media and the anxiety, loneliness, and depression it can foster (very high in teenage girls) 2) climate change 3) cars.

Hormonally crazed boys are further down the list.

[Jaybee]

Originally Posted by Black Dog

This is generally not the case. The psychological effects on boys are deep and long lasting. Just not obvious since they are often well hidden.

Maybe we could start by letting the boys in our lives know that it's ok to feel what you feel. Keeping it boxed up is its own set of future problems.

I've got 2 girls, but this book has greatly informed and improved my parenting philosophy.

[joosttx]

Originally Posted by jaybee

maybe we could start by letting the boys in our lives know that it's ok to feel what you feel. Keeping it boxed up is its own set of future problems. ]

b-i-n-g-o

[colker]

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

I feel we're drifting with the porn stuff. I can only comment on the article itself, which didn't focus on porn. I also unequivocally stated that I didn't think the author was guilty of "man hating." I do think she was guilty of sloppy and sensationalistic journalism, and I'll stand by that.

Research says kids are doing less sex and are less sex obsessed than previous generations. Too much exposure to porn? Maybe.
Otoh there is a lot of serious depression and anxiety issues w/ kids medicated.
A kind of social numbness also from too much social exposure/media.

[HenryA]

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

I feel we're drifting with the porn stuff. I can only comment on the article itself, which didn't focus on porn. I also unequivocally stated that I didn't think the author was guilty of "man hating." I do think she was guilty of sloppy and sensationalistic journalism, and I'll stand by that.

Gotta disagree. When she writes to satisfy her premise only, her work comes across as distorted - because it is. Not a peep about the many boys she interviewed who didn’t fit her preconceived notion of toxic males. (Surely there were some nice young guys who fit her ideal of nice boys - if she had such an ideal at all.)

When a writer presents only the one side of her “research” that supports her premise, its a hit job pure and simple. And a hit job like this panders to a mind set looking for validation of some perhaps misconceived unfairness in the world that must be pointed out and criticized to call attention to the virtue of the caller.

Other than that it was a cloudy piece of fiction paraded as fact.

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by Jaybee

Maybe we could start by letting the boys in our lives know that it's ok to feel what you feel. Keeping it boxed up is its own set of future problems.

I've got 2 girls, but this book has greatly informed and improved my parenting philosophy.

In addition to raising boys with sensitivity, I think it's important to raise girls to be strong and self-reliant.

[verticaldoug]

https://nypost.com/2020/02/26/bikram...auction-block/

as long as we are talking about toxic men.... anyone want to buy a car?

I think his choice of cars, says something.

[merlinmurph]

I have to say, this is an enjoyable OT thread. I'm a 65 year old guy that never had kids (you can thank me now ;-) ) but has observed his friends over the years go thru the trials and tribulations. Congrats to all for your efforts and sacrifices. I totally enjoy meeting other people's kids, seeing where they are, where they're going (or not going), and seeing how issues are handled. It's not an exact science, with a lot of tweaking along the way.

I have a good friend whose adopted son is at his freshman year in college, and, well, it's not going well. He's a bit aimless, but a good kid, just aimless. I can relate because I was pretty aimless at that age myself. Anyways, I'm curious how my friends will guide him from here.

Again, congrats on your efforts.