Friday Night Dreaming - Where do you buy a condo to rent out now and retire to later?

[MattTuck]

What little corner of the country (or world) would you look at to buy a unit that satisfies the following?

1. Fairly cheap (ie. not in one of the hot real estate markets). Let's say a 2 bed/2 bath unit for under $250K.

2. Close to decent year round cycling with enough terrain/routes to keep a retired person busy. Mountain biking nearby is a plus, but not a requirement. But, access to good roads with minimal cars would be key.

3. Convenient enough to get to for a week or 2 week vacation annually.

4. Enough local attractions that you could use AirBNB (or similar) to rent it out and cover most of the expenses during the time you're not there.

[fa63]

At the moment, you probably don't have too many options. Wait until the mini-bubble we are in bursts, then you can probably buy something pretty much anywhere you like

I would look at somewhere in Asheville, NC or Chattanooga, TN (but I am biased being that we live in Atlanta).

[eddief]

Sonoma, CA.

[prototoast]

Originally Posted by eddief

Sonoma, CA.

Sonoma is great, but a little pricey. Within California, he might be able to find a place within his budget near Folsom Lake that might work well.

[buddybikes]

Since it is Fri night dreaming - Bristol RI: https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...-48667?view=qv

yes more than your budget but make you salivate a bit

If you are in the North East, I think southeastern part of MA is hidden gem, great riding, prices aren't Boston, and access to Boston heathcare if needed.

Be realistic, will you need care when older, and what type of medical center you want.

We bought small bungalow on Narragansett (east) bay few years ago, 920sf and dreamlike setting.

IMG_0155.jpg

[Ralph]

You want a 2/2 or 3/2 with at least a 2 car garage condo. You will need some storage space. With an extra bed room.....you can lock it off from the rest of place when you rent it out....keep some stuff there.

[Ozz]

Montana....close to Glacier NP

Or somewhere near Spokane / Couer d'Alene / Pend Oreille

Doesn't check the year 'round cycling or close by boxes....but other are OK

[Hellgate]

I want a place with low humidity. I'm over Austin summers.

[Ken Robb]

What kind of rental program would you anticipate? What attractions would there be for short-term renters? I gather from your plan to use it yourself for a couple of weeks each year that year-round rentals would not work.

I live near UCSD so I am quite familiar with condos that can be rented for the school year to students. Few landlords are willing to leave them vacant for 3 months in the Summer so they require one year leases or longer. Our Mission Beach area has a long tradition of renting apartments, condos and houses for BIG BUCKS to vacationers in the Summer and at "reasonable" rates to students or teachers the other 9 months but the sale prices are HIGH.

Assuming this plan is to buy now and enjoy appreciation until you retire and move in permanently does it make sense to buy in an area that is cheap now and probably not appreciating? I can tell you that condos in high-demand areas appreciate nicely if buildable land is scarce. If there is PLENTY of buildable land buyers won't pay much for old units when they can buy new ones.

[echappist]

Originally Posted by MattTuck

What little corner of the country (or world) would you look at to buy a unit that satisfies the following?

1. Fairly cheap (ie. not in one of the hot real estate markets). Let's say a 2 bed/2 bath unit for under $250K.

2. Close to decent year round cycling with enough terrain/routes to keep a retired person busy. Mountain biking nearby is a plus, but not a requirement. But, access to good roads with minimal cars would be key.

3. Convenient enough to get to for a week or 2 week vacation annually.

4. Enough local attractions that you could use AirBNB (or similar) to rent it out and cover most of the expenses during the time you're not there.

just spitballing it here, but at $250k/yr, taxes alone would likely be $2000/yr. You are probably looking at at least $150/month in HOA charges. So that's the fixed charge (sure to rise from here on out) that has to be paid, regardless of whether there's any revenue coming in. And we haven't even began dealing with home owner insurance, which probably will be quite a bit higher, given the commercial nature of the place. So let's say $5.5k/yr, for the HOA, tax, and insurance.

You need at least $450/month in profit to offset that (and we have even entertained how you'll be paying principle and interest, if you are financing). Is it doable, perhaps. But this would be a hard ask for something carried on the back of Air BnB rental.

That said, I know of a place that satisfies requirements 1)-3): Wintergreen, VA. It's 45 minutes from Charlottesville, and even closer to quite a few decent vineyards. Relatively ease of access.

Bills paid by skiers in the winter and whole host of tourists in the summer. I even recall that there was a MTB race on the premise when I was there three years ago. Only draw back is that if you want to bike to your door, you better have a 4.0 w/kg FTP. The climb up to any residence on the "hill" is no joke. Extended stretches at 12%

For instance, check out this place: https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sal...t/13_zm/0_mmm/

$150k for a 2BR. $400/month HOA, $72/month taxes, and $52/month in insurance (though likely low). Tack on $572/month for principal + interest

Back when I visited, nightly rate was $135/night for a 1-Br loft. I'd imagine you could get $200/night for a 2Br. Assuming 75% occupancy for weekends and at least two days rental, you are looking at $15k/yr (before AirBnB takes its cut). It would appear that this would at least be feasible. You'd probably want to contract out the cleaning, which will also eat into your profit, but at least you have a decent shot at being close to revenue positive.

[MattTuck]

The Southern New England suggestion is interesting. Maybe not year round, but probably 9 months of fairly decent weather. Compared to northern new england, where we have 6 or 7 decent months.

Coeur d'Alene is another great suggestion. Beautiful country.

Ashville seems an obvious spot, but maybe too crowded out.

Originally Posted by Ken Robb

What kind of rental program would you anticipate? What attractions would there be for short-term renters? I gather from your plan to use it yourself for a couple of weeks each year that year-round rentals would not work.
...
Assuming this plan is to buy now and enjoy appreciation until you retire and move in permanently does it make sense to buy in an area that is cheap now and probably not appreciating? I can tell you that condos in high-demand areas appreciate nicely if buildable land is scarce. If there is PLENTY of buildable land buyers won't pay much for old units when they can buy new ones.

Good points, as usual Ken.

Originally Posted by echappist

just spitballing it here, but at $250k/yr, taxes alone would likely be $2000/yr. You are probably looking at at least $150/month in HOA charges. So that's the fixed charge (sure to rise from here on out) that has to be paid, regardless of whether there's any revenue coming in. And we haven't even began dealing with home owner insurance, which probably will be quite a bit higher, given the commercial nature of the place. So let's say $5.5k/yr, for the HOA, tax, and insurance.

You need at least $450/month in profit to offset that (and we have even entertained how you'll be paying principle and interest, if you are financing). Is it doable, perhaps. But this would be a hard ask for something carried on the back of Air BnB rental.

...

Jim, party pooper But obviously these are the kinds of things to seriously consider. Interesting that there is a ski area in VA. Gives a bit more opportunity to rent it out in the winter.

Originally Posted by fa63

At the moment, you probably don't have too many options. Wait until the mini-bubble we are in bursts, then you can probably buy something pretty much anywhere you like

I would look at somewhere in Asheville, NC or Chattanooga, TN (but I am biased being that we live in Atlanta).

Seriously! I hear that, but if we enter into a period of high inflation, who knows where house prices could go The Asheville and Chattanooga suggestions resonate. I think I looked at some rides around Chattanooga once. Seem to recall it had some cool options.

[Louis]

I would think that "reasonable costs" and "year-round riding weather" are two characteristics that tend not to be found in the same place.

[Spaghetti Legs]

My hometown of Charlottesville (near Wintergreen noted above) is pricey but not on level of California, DC, NYC. People here rent their homes out all the time; I hear stuff like “staying with my brother this weekend while I rent my house out”. Around UVA graduation or other events, not uncommon to rent places out for $500/night.

Average real estate price in town is $200/sf.

Major academic medical center in town. Weather is pretty good, lots of arts, entertainment, restaurants, breweries, vineyards.

[rnhood]

Asheville is way too crowded and the downtown area is seedy. Homes/condos are extremely expensive. The surrounding area is beautiful with lots of outdoor things to do though.

Coeur d'Alene is simply gorgeous, although a little remote.

The above mentioned Wintergreen area is very nice, and bike riding in the surrounding area it outstanding. Charlottesville kind of goes without saying. Its a quality area.

Florida has some nice areas, but it's getting overcrowded here too. Home and/or condo maintenance will require deep pockets as a general rule.

My advice is to invest your money and buy once you retire.

[echappist]

Originally Posted by MattTuck

Jim, party pooper But obviously these are the kinds of things to seriously consider. Interesting that there is a ski area in VA. Gives a bit more opportunity to rent it out in the winter.

the cost consideration part or the w/kg part

Jest aside, I bet no other site mentioned has as much cycling history as Wintergreen. Anybody wanna take a guess at what the connection is?