Toe overlap - does it matter???

[StruggleClimber]

Hi all.

I recently bought a cyclocross bike in smaller size and it is my first bike I have experienced toe overlap with. I am looking to try and mitigate this problem since this is a bike I will be doing slow, tedious often uphill maneuvers with off road. I am running 170 cranks and SPDs, I have a 90mm stem, and I am running a decently narrow 700c rim with 43mm clincher tires. I have a feeling my tires could be "ballooning out" on my rim. Is this something people have also experienced? Could this just be a skill issue?? I want to start the conversation and try to learn if there is any way to minimize the problem. Any and all advice helps. Thanks

[jimoots]

First question, can you run 43mm tyres in a cross race? I ask as you note the tedious slow manoeuvres which scream cross race, ha ha! Typically CX is limited to a 33mm tyre, although local club races aren't always strict on this.

AFAIK - and assuming cleat position is fixed, which it should be - the only way to address this would be with a shorter crank or different tyre/wheel setup.

[Flinch]

One of my more compact Mtn bikes has toe overlap (2"+ tires, size 11 shoes), and I rarely have issues. Hopefully your feet will 'learn' to stay out of the way. At low speeds it has not been a problem, and at high speeds you don't turn sharply.

[Ed-B]

Bad toe overlap can cause the bike to fail a tight slow turn on a technical trail. It can practically stop a bike if you stick it hard. 700C bikes with short front centers and big tires are going to have it.

So yeah, some folks don't mind but it matters to me. I can deal with toe overlap on a road bike, but not on a bike ridden on trails and over bog bridges. A lot of cx bikes have it. That's one of the reasons I converted my Fuji Cross Comp to 650B. Smaller wheels... no more toe overlap!

[Mike V]

I don’t have a bike without overlap. I’m vertically challenged.

[superbowlpats]

All three of the CX bikes I have ridden during cross racing have had toe overlap. Never been an issue once you get to used to it, happens only during really slow speed tight turns which typically are rare, maybe once or twice a lap. It starts to happen and you just adjust. NBD

[StruggleClimber]

Originally Posted by jimoots

First question, can you run 43mm tyres in a cross race? I ask as you note the tedious slow manoeuvres which scream cross race, ha ha! Typically CX is limited to a 33mm tyre, although local club races aren't always strict on this.

AFAIK - and assuming cleat position is fixed, which it should be - the only way to address this would be with a shorter crank or different tyre/wheel setup.

I'm assuming you cant run 43s in a race... this bike is being enjoyed on local trails as of right now haha.

I am in the process of building up a wheelset with a wider inner diameter as well as sizing down the tire. hoping this will at least reduce the overlap by a little bit

[unterhausen]

I always forget that my gravel bike has toe overlap. I only hit my toe on my front tire once every couple of years. I did it the other day when starting up, and it almost launched me into a ditch. So far toe overlap has only caused me a few moments of excitement, usually because of a foot hitting a fender.

I don't look at it at all when designing a frame. Bikecad will tell you how much toe overlap you have, but I don't care.

[ikecycke]

As far as tire size allowed in CX racing, local races won't care if you run 43s...most will let you race on a MTB if that's all you have. Racing masters classes at Nationals limits you to 38s. The only way you're limited to 33c these days is if you race UCI or elite-level races at Nationals.

Toe overlap on a CX bike is a deal breaker for me. I got a custom Rock Lobster from Paul a couple years ago, everything was perfect except the front-center was a but short and I was constantly knocking my toes on tight corners (I have big-ish feet). Old-school CX bikes with short wheelbases for tight cornering tend to have shorter front-center, newer generation gravel/cx bikes like the Crux, Supersix CX, and Boone are the best I've found for avoiding overlap (currently on the Crux).

[Hilltopperny]

Originally Posted by StruggleClimber

I'm assuming you cant run 43s in a race... this bike is being enjoyed on local trails as of right now haha.

I am in the process of building up a wheelset with a wider inner diameter as well as sizing down the tire. hoping this will at least reduce the overlap by a little bit

Is the bike disc? If so you can give 650b a try and that should mitigate some of the overlap.

[superbowlpats]

Originally Posted by ikecycke

newer generation gravel/cx bikes like the Crux, Supersix CX, and Boone are the best I've found for avoiding overlap (currently on the Crux).

I've got a 2023 Boone and still have toe overlap. Not a ton but its there on slow tight turns. Just enough to scuff the front of the shoe to the tread of the tires (38mm).

[ikecycke]

Originally Posted by superbowlpats

I've got a 2023 Boone and still have toe overlap. Not a ton but its there on slow tight turns. Just enough to scuff the front of the shoe to the tread of the tires (38mm).

The Boone is probably the closest to traditional CX of those 3, glad you mentioned that you've run into toe overlap as I've considered moving to the Boone. The Cannondale has crazy amounts of front-center, and the Crux is kind of in the middle (but has the lowest bottom bracket of the 3). I narrowed it down to the Crux and the Supersix, and went Crux since Cannondale insists on keeping the pressfit bottom bracket, which I just don't get on a CX/gravel bike.

[benb]

I'm 185cm and wear 47 shoes. I'm not sure I've ever had a road bike or gravel bike without toe overlap. Off the top of my head I'm not sure if I've ever hit my toe on a MTB, they generally have longer front center but maybe my old school MTBs I could.

It really doesn't matter at all, I can turn bikes around in tiny spaces from all the years of MTB and I have certainly hit my foot on the front tire but it doesn't put any limit on how tight I can turn and I have never crashed as a result.

Hitting the tire with your foot is like scraping your pedal in a really tight turn when you're hauling and trying to keep pedaling.. it is not going to make you crash 99% of the time unless you are being very clumsy in the way you do it.

You can stop pedaling if you have awareness in tight circumstances, you can backpedal, etc.. this is all the same skills you need to not smash pedals into rocks in mountain biking. But these skills are also 99.999% unneeded in road and gravel, you will never be going that slow. Also there are very often different ways you can negotiate the corner and not all will require you to turn the wheel so much. (relevant to CX) If you have the traction you can go a teeny bit faster, lean the bike further, and you won't be deflecting the wheel so far towards your toes. (Something that is needed at some level in slow speed motorcycling and is incredibly unnerving compared to bicycles)

[MikeD]

Originally Posted by Ed-B

Bad toe overlap can cause the bike to fail a tight slow turn on a technical trail. It can practically stop a bike if you stick it hard. 700C bikes with short front centers and big tires are going to have it.

So yeah, some folks don't mind but it matters to me. I can deal with toe overlap on a road bike, but not on a bike ridden on trails and over bog bridges. A lot of cx bikes have it. That's one of the reasons I converted my Fuji Cross Comp to 650B. Smaller wheels... no more toe overlap!

I'm with you here. I don't own a CX bike so can't comment if CX bikes normally have toe overlap, but I would not buy a mountain, gravel, or touring bike that had overlap. On road bikes it's normal to have overlap.

[StruggleClimber]

Originally Posted by benb

I'm 185cm and wear 47 shoes. I'm not sure I've ever had a road bike or gravel bike without toe overlap. Off the top of my head I'm not sure if I've ever hit my toe on a MTB, they generally have longer front center but maybe my old school MTBs I could.

It really doesn't matter at all, I can turn bikes around in tiny spaces from all the years of MTB and I have certainly hit my foot on the front tire but it doesn't put any limit on how tight I can turn and I have never crashed as a result.

Hitting the tire with your foot is like scraping your pedal in a really tight turn when you're hauling and trying to keep pedaling.. it is not going to make you crash 99% of the time unless you are being very clumsy in the way you do it.

You can stop pedaling if you have awareness in tight circumstances, you can backpedal, etc.. this is all the same skills you need to not smash pedals into rocks in mountain biking. But these skills are also 99.999% unneeded in road and gravel, you will never be going that slow. Also there are very often different ways you can negotiate the corner and not all will require you to turn the wheel so much. (relevant to CX) If you have the traction you can go a teeny bit faster, lean the bike further, and you won't be deflecting the wheel so far towards your toes. (Something that is needed at some level in slow speed motorcycling and is incredibly unnerving compared to bicycles)

Thanks for the input. I am 175cm and wear an eu40 so it's never been an issue even on road bikes for me. I still haven't crashed as a result but i have definitely unclipped and put a foot down just because of how the bike reacted to hitting my foot. I have a touring bike with a wheelbase that is a good bit longer and i can ride the same trails without issue, but that bike feels considerably more sluggish than the bike that I am having the overlap issues with. alot of this could also be an issue of underbiking but some group rides i go on embrace that kind of riding style.

This is great info though and I will definitely keep these things in mind while riding