The Search for a Carbon Bike that Feels like a Metal Bike

[Waldo62]

My carbon Land Shark and Colnago C40 feel like nice steel bikes.

[Clean39T]

The solution here is obvious:



Throw on a pair of flat pedals and you'll be riding along in blissful suspension at all of your contact points --

[Clean39T]

Seriously though.. I am curious why no one (to my knowledge) has developed cycling shoe inserts/footbeds made out of the material that Silca uses in its handlebar tape, which is supposed to not compress or suck impedance watts out of the system.

Paging @joshatsilca -- new product idea?

Or maybe should I just cut some strips of Cuscino tape and stick that in my Bonts.....

[benb]

That's funny, I rode a bit earlier this summer in my Brooks running shoes with flat pedals.

I found it horrible. I don't remember this being a problem years ago when I rode with flat pedals.

But all these running shoes today are trying to be big squishy things that control the motion of your feet.

The brooks were doing all kinds of bizarre things when you start putting power down.. the sole of the shoe was collapsing in assymetrical ways causing my ankles to want to twist to the outside.

Yah, my feet didn't hurt. But I couldn't put down squat for power without being terrified I was going to hurt my knees. The shoes were acting like someone had put a gigantic varus wedge on them.

[Clean39T]

As for the question of "things that aren't metal that feel and perform like metal".........

I've had steel bikes and titanium bikes that were god-awful stiff at the BB and rode like a railroad-tie under my moderate weight and meagerish watts - but were perfectly appropriate for someone 50-lbs heavier mashing 100W more through the system.

And I've had carbon bikes that were gloriously springy and responsive for me (which heavier/stronger riders would probably think were wet noodles).

I'm sure Parlee, Calfee, Pursuit, Holland, or Crumpton could all develop a layup and tube mix that gave you the BB feel you want at the weight you are after.

Rob English will probably get you there when it's your turn too.

But finding a modern carbon bike off the peg that has a supple pedaling platform at the BB for someone your size/weight/watts? Not gonna happen. The big brands are measured on their stiffness at the BB and have to design a system that can withstand 120-kg riders - especially a bike like the Crux that has to take that beating offroad and not fail or be complained about. For better or worse, stiffness is still a measuring stick in the industry, particularly when it comes to light/fast/racing oriented bikes.

What I'm talking about here though is more feel at the pedals relative to the pressure you are creating when pedaling - not the feel of "harshness" coming through the pedals. While I think there is probably something to having a bit of resonance protection when using ultra-stiff shoes, it seems a couple PSI difference in the tire - on the right frameset - would make more of a difference. It is also possible that what you are feeling at your feet is not shock from the ground but the resistance of an overly-stiff BB when pedaling. Dunno. Just spitballing.

[Clean39T]

Originally Posted by benb

That's funny, I rode a bit earlier this summer in my Brooks running shoes with flat pedals.

I found it horrible. I don't remember this being a problem years ago when I rode with flat pedals.

But all these running shoes today are trying to be big squishy things that control the motion of your feet.

The brooks were doing all kinds of bizarre things when you start putting power down.. the sole of the shoe was collapsing in assymetrical ways causing my ankles to want to twist to the outside.

Yah, my feet didn't hurt. But I couldn't put down squat for power without being terrified I was going to hurt my knees. The shoes were acting like someone had put a gigantic varus wedge on them.

I was jesting..... overly padded shoes make little sense to me even running, let alone cycling.

[benb]

Originally Posted by Clean39T

I was jesting..... overly padded shoes make little sense to me even running, let alone cycling.

For sure.. what's happened is I've been wearing the same types of shoes for a long time.

Brooks has kept the fit the same which means they continue to fit great.

But they are monkeying with what's in the sole for sure. I really hate the current rage of putting a ton of EVA foam into running shoes. That foam collapses and makes the shoe useless long before the tread is shot on the bottom of the shoes and the upper still generally looks brand new when the foam is shot.

I'm kind of at my breaking point but I'm kind of sensitive to shoes with respect to exercise. Cycling shoes have tended to be a lot easier for me.

[wernerherzogsid]

I have found the search in life for something to fulfill the desires satiated by another to be a fruitless one.

The only way a sunflower is the same as a rose is in the mind of a madman. Both are beautiful in their own way and appreciate them for what they are.

[Clean39T]

I should have read some of the posts above before responding and wasting words on the interwebs..

Once Mr. Kirk and Mr. Hampsten have weighed in, there's little left to add but anecdotes.

[RyanH]

Originally Posted by fredd

Not what OP is asking for, but I'd say the simplest solution would be getting some less rigid shoes. I know the thought of it is scary as road riders, but you'll probably lose very little if any efficiency, and gain a lot of comfort in the feet.

I tested this on my ride today:





I forgot that I tend to bring out the Bonts for hard rides and my other shoes for every day so I did a back to back comparison trying to hit this:



The Bonts definitely transmit more vibration to the feet. I don't have definitive feedback on if it's the difference between the two bikes as the Crux is with a friend. With that being said, I was planning on doing my last Saturday ride again on the Litespeed this Saturday so I'll make sure to wear the same shoes (Bonts). The last few long, hard rides I've done on the Crux ended with me being the most uncomfortable on a bike I can remember. I don't have enough data points to know if this is just a fitness issue (shouldn't be since my volume has been much higher than the rest of the year over the last 3 months) or a bike issue (or even a shoe issue I guess).

@Clean39T I must have missed Hampsten's post, what is his username?

[reuben]

Originally Posted by Clean39T

I should have read some of the posts above before responding and wasting words on the interwebs..

Once Mr. Kirk and Mr. Hampsten have weighed in, there's little left to add but anecdotes.

Unless you're Werner Herzog's id.

[NHAero]

Obviously this is caused by wearing shorts. I wear far more clothing and have no issues

Originally Posted by RyanH

I tested this on my ride today:





I forgot that I tend to bring out the Bonts for hard rides and my other shoes for every day so I did a back to back comparison trying to hit this:



The Bonts definitely transmit more vibration to the feet. I don't have definitive feedback on if it's the difference between the two bikes as the Crux is with a friend. With that being said, I was planning on doing my last Saturday ride again on the Litespeed this Saturday so I'll make sure to wear the same shoes (Bonts). The last few long, hard rides I've done on the Crux ended with me being the most uncomfortable on a bike I can remember. I don't have enough data points to know if this is just a fitness issue (shouldn't be since my volume has been much higher than the rest of the year over the last 3 months) or a bike issue (or even a shoe issue I guess).

@Clean39T I must have missed Hampsten's post, what is his username?

[RyanH]

Also, want to add that for those on carbon bikes curious to understand what I'm talking about, I think the best example is to go find a patch of pavement that resembles poor chipseal, something that transmit a lot of vibrations, not just a little. Pay attention to the feel in your hands versus your feet. On a metal bike like mine, the front is mostly carbon so that should be the same on carbon bikes but the feet feel more muted/isolated. My complaint is that the feet are getting the same sensations (or worse) as the hands on most carbon bikes.

[prototoast]

Originally Posted by RyanH

Also, want to add that for those on carbon bikes curious to understand what I'm talking about, I think the best example is to go find a patch of pavement that resembles poor chipseal, something that transmit a lot of vibrations, not just a little. Pay attention to the feel in your hands versus your feet. On a metal bike like mine, the front is mostly carbon so that should be the same on carbon bikes but the feet feel more muted/isolated. My complaint is that the feet are getting the same sensations (or worse) as the hands on most carbon bikes.

Sorry, my feet are in constant pain when I ride at baseline, so I've never been able to detect what you're describing between carbon or metal bikes.

You must be lucky to have such untroubled feet.

[Clean39T]

Originally Posted by reuben

Unless you're Werner Herzog's id.

Goes without saying..