Carbon wheel testing

[mcteague]

Pretty interesting. I'm sure many will say this is not a real world test but the results are worth checking out.

https://cyclingtips.com/2017/12/carbon-clincher-safety/



Tim

[Veloo]

YIKES!
The Boyd and the Roval. HO-LEEE!

Even if you don't ever get to that point of speed and heat in an actual ride, it would still be in the back of my head.

[sparky33]

A marketing piece veiled as science.

I like my Boyd carbon clinchers with rim brakes. That study is nonsense.

[fignon's barber]

If I ever buy a lab based wheel testing device, I'll be sure to pick up an Alto wheel.

[AngryScientist]

you have to love a test organized by a component manufacturer where their product wins the competition by a yuge margin.

[fa63]

Originally Posted by sparky33

That study is nonsense.

Care to elaborate why? I realize the study is not the height of science, but curious to hear why you think it is nonsense.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by fignon's barber

If I ever buy a lab based wheel testing device, I'll be sure to pick up an Alto wheel.

Yup, similar to 'gorilla' tests on crank stiffness...exerting a YUGE amount of force to see which flexes..much more than mere mortals.

[AngryScientist]

Originally Posted by fa63

Care to elaborate why? I realize the study is not the height of science, but curious to hear why you think it is nonsense.

i didnt read the whole thing, admittedly, but the reason i think it's nonsense is that the test failed to mention the actual braking performance.

the whole point of the exercise of braking is to slow the bike down, obviously.

how well do the alleged class leaders do of actually producing friction to slow the wheel?

for example, any wheel could have won that test with a slick brake track. less friction = less heat developed = lasting longer under brake pressure.

but that would be a failure for braking.

the reason (probably) the other rims failed first is that the brake tracks developed more friction force, which would, on the road, slow the bike faster, but under a constant drive (as in the test) they just develop more heat, and fail faster.

it's also a crap argument that they used all the same brake pads, when other rim manufacturers clears specify a brake pad compound.

[sparky33]

Originally Posted by fa63

Care to elaborate why? I realize the study is not the height of science, but curious to hear why you think it is nonsense.

'But the testing protocol is subject to criticism. For example, only one sample per wheel model was used, which is hardly enough for a statistically valid conclusion. And according to Sweeting, the 1200W input force was chosen more for reasons of practicality, not empirical data collected out in the real world.'

'For example, Alto’s 1,200-watt drive load is double what Enve uses for its testing. Is that too much? Perhaps, particularly given that Sweeting admits that the input load was chosen more to shorten the test duration, not empirical data based on what riders experience in real-life conditions.'

It's manipulative in showing catastrophic failure of common carbon wheels, perhaps leading a lazy reader into thinking that existing modern carbon wheels are somehow dangerous. The article continues on to admit that the testing standard is doubly excessive and not relevant to the real world.
Alto has this new wheel that can survive the apocalypse. The apocalypse is not something I experience on my road bike, so a wheel that solves that problem does not provide me any additional utility.

[zap]

Boy, this write up will ruffle some feathers.

[Gummee]

IDK about my riding, but the Hincapie Gran Fondo doesn't allow carbon clinchers in the ride so there're obviously still potential problems with carbon clinchers.

YMMV and all that

M

[fa63]

Originally Posted by sparky33

The apocalypse is not something I experience on my road bike, so a wheel that solves that problem does not provide me any additional utility.

You may not experience it, but that doesn't mean others won't. Plenty of people still blow their carbon clinchers; including high-end ones (Enve, Zipp, etc.). Sometimes it is not just up the rider's ability to descend, and you might have to ride your brakes a bit (or a lot).

That said, I think they should have at least tested with each manufacturer's recommended pads.

[glepore]

The test does prove that their wheel has a higher tg epoxy than the other brands. Whether its a real world difference, I don't know. I know experienced riders on fondos can melt wheels (name brands) due to the traffic, whereas jra on the same hills you can be fine because you can plan your braking better.

[Bentley]

I actually saw the ALTO wheels at the Horrible Hundred a couple of weeks ago, they are actually pretty impressive. The design was done by a couple of engineers from UF that are also riders, I believe they are made overseas. I would share they are unlike anything I have ever seen and they seem very "robust". They don't look like other wheels I have seen. I would like to offer that the owner, Mr. Sweeting, is a real good guy and I think its a bit unfair to characterize him as anything other than a guy that is trying to show the benefits of his product.

Ray

[MesiJezi]

Hmmm... I think they should probably test the alta rim to failure and publish the results of that test.

What they've done is set the arbitrary test parameters to a point where every wheel failed except theirs. The alta wheel could possibly have failed 1 second after the 40 minutes of testing were up, or with an additional .1 lbs of braking force, or with one additional watt of power applied... etc.

This testing certainly wouldn't have me running out to buy alta wheels over any of the other major brands.