I need a husband

[Bruce K]

Larry's wife has one of the smallest Serotta's I have EVER seen

Compare the build specs from your bike to hers and also compare your issues to any she might have (my recollection is that she has almost none and loves her bike)

That may give you some insight as to a possible "fix"

BK

[thwart]

As someone who has built 3 650c bikes for the height challenged women in our family, I would say that you've reached the point of considering sending the bike back to Serotta for a re-do. I seem to remember that Smiley and Dekonick had that set up for a Hors Categorie...

You already have 650c wheels, the shortest production crankarms, have clipless pedals... I really doubt that anything short of a major change in your fork rake would be worth pursuing. And what that change would do to the handling might 'destroy' the experience on the bike.

If you were 'mis-fit' perhaps the shop will help with the expense... ?

[jt2gt]

Originally Posted by thwart

As someone who has built 3 650c bikes for the height challenged women in our family, I would say that you've reached the point of considering sending the bike back to Serotta for a re-do. I seem to remember that Smiley and Dekonick had that set up for a Hors Categorie...

You already have 650c wheels, the shortest production crankarms, have clipless pedals... I really doubt that anything short of a major change in your fork rake would be worth pursuing. And what that change would do to the handling might 'destroy' the experience on the bike.

If you were 'mis-fit' perhaps the shop will help with the expense... ?

Problem I see is: Its Been Two Years. Tough argument to make to Serotta that you want a refit, refund or redo after 2 years of use. I totally understand OPs story (about being guilted, strongarmed into taking the bike) and really hope she can get some relief. But this should have been an immediate discussion with fitter, bike shop and Serotta. Not sure what she can do now...if Serotta can make good, that would be amazingly great.

JT

[Pegoready]

I am sorry to hear about this. Toe overlap is a sensitive subject and no one has the right to say "just deal with it" especially when you paid for your dream bike.

I have a suspicion that the fork rake is in the high 3's or low 4's (I'm talking cm's) on your 650c fork. That seems to be the only option. PM me if you'd like info on how to get a 650c carbon fork made with a 5.4 cm or 5.8 cm rake. This will make the handling quicker but it will gain you up to 2 cm of clearance. Based on the pictures that may not be enough, but I thought I'd throw that out there.

[Vientomas]

What about installing some S&S couplers to the top and down tube. Wouldn't that add some length to the respective tubes and move the front wheel away from the down tube and pedals?

Obviously that would increase the reach from saddle to bars as well. Perhaps the OP does not want a longer reach.

Just a thought.

[Smiley]

Originally Posted by Bruce K

Larry's wife has one of the smallest Serotta's I have EVER seen

Compare the build specs from your bike to hers and also compare your issues to any she might have (my recollection is that she has almost none and loves her bike)

That may give you some insight as to a possible "fix"

BK

Larry's wife had a Straight set of handlebars on her bike to add to Top Tube length.

ALL I have heard from a good source within Serotta that this story has another side to it and we should NOT jump to too many bad conclusions about our host or the fitter in question not doing their most about this problem. Smiley

[ultraman6970]

Originally Posted by wordbuzz

Yes, they're definitely 650 wheels!
I have thought about getting smaller cranks specially made, (I am on 165's now), but everyone has advised against it because they say I would have to spin faster. Not true? I know this would only buy me couple of centimeters, right?
The fork I have is also the only fork made for 650's with this much rake.

The crankset is a pretty tough call because is not just go and put 140 mm cranks in there to fix the toe overlap. 165 is like the smallest one in stock usually and who knows what I could happen bio mechanically speaking if you go to the extreme and put 140 mm cranks for example, never seen a person your size using less than 165, probably the strength to move the gears will be affected. U have less torque now, smaller crank u need to put more power to move the same weight. So don't even want to tell you what it will happen in the climbs.

A deeper fork will give you as much of a centimeter or more but the issue you generate with the is that the handling will go to lala land. about the 650 wheel comment about spinning, actually the only advantage of 650 wheels is that they are faster to get them going/rolling, but with the right gears as somebody mentioned is basically the same thing. That's why u have 54 and 55 chainrings.

After seeing the geometry i really think you have to just learn to ride with the toe over lap, a 48 cm frame is so small that I still remember when I got mine when I was like 10 and mine was a track frame that is even smaller than the one you are getting, 2 hours riding that thing with fix gear and problem solved, simply coordination, if she thinks she can learn the skill great!, I dont see a problem, other mentioned her age (looks like for some it is a big problem), she is 60, wish my grandma or my mom was able to ride like her tho. Good for her.

The other thing is that the only situations when is going to be a problem with the toe overlap is if you do a tight corner like making a u turn, or maybe in a parking lot but in the road doubt she will get even close to touch the wheel with the shoe unless the corner is really tight. So tight that the steering needs to move at least 35 degrees after balancing with her own weight.

With smaller wheels some complain about speed handling issues but wonder how fast are you going to ride, how fast are you talking about, 90 km/h downhill? (50 mph), 45 km/h?, some here are racing also so handling is something that is learn. Sincerely, IF she wont go over 15 mph in flats i really doubt she will feel any handling issue and at her age group, the only lady around 52 I have seen personally going 25+ mph in the flats is Jenny Longo, are u Jenny Longo by any chance? Sorry for my sarcasm but just making a point, i like you a lot wish my wife had 1/4 of your interest in the sport as u do.

As for going downhill for some reason serotta developed that bike with that geometry also, i really doubt the lady will go 75 km/h going down hill and probably the bike if left as it is it will handle right at those speeds or at least to 55 km/h (35 mph) downhill that is relatively slow under my point of view.

Other will complain that their wifes got an accident and stuff because of overlap (my wife complain even if there is too much sun, i can't make the sun disappear everytime she wants, right?), but sadly it is what it is with short and small frames. Change the fork for a super long one like a chopper style (just making a point) will send the handling totally off and now the cornering will be affected. It is a tough call for her and I understand that but even going custom at those sizes you have some tolerances (remember a girl showing up with a builder asking for a 67 degrees 44 cm custom frame because that's what the fitting formulas said, obviously she never got the frame made, got a vitus 700/650 in the front instead), u can design a bike with longer wheel base but again the handling will be like a truck, slow and steady, my background is racing so long based bikes are not on me at all but could work for her tho. Honestly. it is faster and cheaper for her to learn a new skill than try to fix it in my opinion, but is her call. As for the store, well they should have known the problem from the beginning and let her known before taking her money based in previous promises, their fault.

Good luck...

Cambio y fuera

[picstloup]

Originally Posted by wordbuzz

Yes, 1happygirl, I actually looked at Terry bikes. Georgena Terry rocks! She takes women bikers seriously and designs for them. I didn't get a Terry because I really wanted a Ti bike. I also thought that having the bike designed specifically for me would guarantee me a better fit. I wanted to buy American, and everything I read about Ben Serotta and the Serotta bike itself made me a believer. I've been a lurker on forums for a long time, and I really did a lot of research. I just didn't know enough to ask the right questions. I consider this bike to be my first bike, really, at least first bike that was such an investment. My other bikes were always off the rack, and weren't this quality. Like I said, it was a reward for surviving some pretty challenging life issues. I felt like I had one shot and that was going to be it. I bought based on reputation, but I didn't really understand bike design numbers and how everything worked together. I was leaving that up to the fitter and Serotta. Kind-of like the way you trust your doctor to be up to speed on your medical care. You can't know it all. You have to trust the experts. So I put my research time into finding the experts. Now I am sadder, poorer, but much wiser.

Dear wordbuzz...it may be too late, you waited many years, but I'd contact serotta direct, explain this all, or just send your initial post, and see if they can help you...I would think they'd want to make this right...

I wonder...is it any place in writing that the fitter promised/guaranteed no overlap?...if yes, that will help...no matter, serotta should know they have a fitter not doing their job, or at least not being honest about expected results...

reading about all the 'near misses' on the street because of this problem would ruin any pleasure in owning this bike...

I might also visit a few bike shops for rides on stock bikes that fit you...see if you can find something that works...then maybe talk to serotta?...or at least know for yourself that what you want is doable...

good luck to you on this...you should have what you want and need to make riding a pleasure, especially after laying down so much cash...

[thegunner]

Originally Posted by ultraman6970

The crankset is a pretty tough call because is not just go and put 140 mm cranks in there to fix the toe overlap. 165 is like the smallest one in stock usually and who knows what I could happen bio mechanically speaking if...

[snipped]

As for the store, well they should have known the problem from the beginning and let her known before taking her money based in previous promises, their fault.

Good luck...

Cambio y fuera

sentences. they are not your friend.

[jlwdm]

Originally Posted by picstloup

Dear wordbuzz...it may be too late, you waited many years, but I'd contact serotta direct, explain this all, or just send your initial post, and see if they can help you...

..

+100

Always deal with company first. Here you get all kinds of opinions from people who may or may not have good advice, usually based on part of the whole picture.

Jeff

[ultraman6970]

WHen English is like your 3rd tonge is hard to make sense sometimes, but thanks

[thegunner]

it's my second but reading that was a constant stream of information overload

[sc53]

Hi WordBuzz, another female with two custom Serottas (I'm 5'6" so have more cm to work with, I ride 50 cm road frame) chiming in here. You have already heard from Smiley and Dave Wages and others who know what they are talking about. It may be possible to "unweld" your bike and redo the geometry? I know builders take bikes apart to add S&S couplers, but not sure they can actually change the angles unless you add some new tubes to the mix. Short of redoing the whole bike and reusing whatever tubes I could, I would look at (1) using a longer stem with short-reach bars or even flat or mustache/albatross bars; (2) using clipless pedals and moving the cleats up to as close to the front of my shoe as possible; (3) buying bike shoes that are as unbulky up front as possible (eg. Sidi instead of Shimano touring-type shoes or Lake shoes, which are really bulky and in my size, 41.5, catch my front tire all winter long until I change back to my summer Sidis); (4) possibly getting a new fork in a material like steel where you can change the rake; (5) using smaller size tires to give me as much room for my foot as possible; (6) changing to a triple crank or a larger cogset or both so that could remain seated on climbs and not swerve due to lack of power. Like you, I LOVE my Serottas and would hate to have to give them up. I got my first one, a CSI, 15 years ago when I was younger, thinner, and fitter, so I have made a bunch of changes (short of redoing the geometry!) to make it more suitable to me now at age 58: different crankset and cassette, new taller stem so I'm sitting more upright, fatter tires (Riv Roly-Polys) so I'm more comfortable on bumpy roads. In 2005 I ordered a new Ottrott which fits me perfectly and is my most comfortable bike size-wise. There is hope for your Legend! PM Smiley or contact Serotta directly and get to work on some fixes for your bike.

[SPOKE]

Originally Posted by Smiley

"ALL I have heard from a good source within Serotta that this story has another side to it and we should NOT jump to too many bad conclusions about our host or the fitter in question not doing their most about this problem. Smiley

Ah....the other side of this story! I doubt that we will ever get the other part of this story.
I have to agree with many (if not all) that have posted to this thread that this type of situation sucks. It sucks for all involved.
What I've learned in my 30 years dealing with bikes is that small frames are a challenge to build. Managing the "compromises" during the design process is tough. One way to minimize these types of issues is to create an actual dimensioned sketch of the bike not just the frame & fork.
Unless things have changed recently Serotta does not provide this bit of important documentation.

[SamIAm]

I'd be curious as to what the OP thought should be done about this. Surely, she wasn't expecting a quick fix/tip from the gang here that would resolve this problem. Me thinks, by posting here, she is looking for a Serotta solution, which seems a bit far fetched 2 years after the fact.