Talk to me about Moots Compact SL

[redir]

FWIW my Compact is not an SL and has a nonreplaceable hangar.

I would think that he SL would have stickers on it. If not then they were removed and if they were removed there could be an unscrupulous reason why.

If it was a custom build then I would think yes, they may have put a replaceable hangar on an SL?

[nobuseri]

I think it depends more on the year made. I had two Vamoots (non SL) in the classic geo. The early 2000s one I had (2002) didn’t have a replaceable hanger, but the 2008 one I still have does. Same bike, same geo, just diff production years.

[Butch]

Coming in late to the conversation, but all the SL's that had the 6/4 tubing (pre RSL) had the one piece 6/4 dropouts with the windows. As most probably know there was a limited amount of this tubing that De Rosa and Moots used. When we knew the tubing was going to run out I purchased all that Reynolds had and once that was gone it was gone. Selfishly I saved a tubeset for myself which also included a set of their 6/4 chainstays, which we did not use on the models we sold so that every tube on that frame is seamless 6/4 except the headtube.

The 6/4 tubing was very hard on the surface and we had issues with getting the bead blast finish consistent through the whole frame often meaning we had to use production cloth in 220 grit to break through some of the surface hardness. It does have a different color/finish look to it from the Sandvik 6/4 tubes.

For me the advantage of the 6/4 tube set is that we were able to get a stiffer feel with smaller diameter tubes which in turn are lighter. I will attest that when I built my frame with the 6/4 seamless chainstays, after the frame was welded up the dropouts came out 0.5 mm narrow. I have aligned/cold set a lot of frames over the years and I could not get this one moved. The last thing I wanted to do was buckle the chainstay over 0.5mm. I'll try and post a picture of this frame at some point, there are some custom details I didn't want to show while at Moots...

With the integrated binder, there are several reasons we stopped using that. 1.We went to a larger diameter seat tube, we would have had to look at a possible redesign, 2. it is simply a lot more work and most importantly 3. a clamp works a lot better. The key to any system is to have the clamping force as concentric as possible with the bolt as close to the post as possible. The weld on system pinches the slot more, sometimes to the point of touching on the outside while pushing the inside into the seatpost. Not good. It was not a serious problem but the combo of using a bigger diameter seat tube and the same size post made it so the bolt and therefore the clamp was farther from the post itself.

[happycampyer]

Butch, thanks so much for this insight. Would love to see details of your custom SL!

I recall being told that the SLs were a lot more work to produce, and got the sense that there was some division within the company whether it was worth making the frames (perhaps Kent himself was not a fan?) or at least that the higher price didn’t properly reflect the extra time and effort required to produce them.

I have the receipts for my Vamoots SL and Compact SL, and they were $3,300 bitd, which was only a few hundred dollars more than a non-SL equivalent. I mistakenly sold them when I got an RSL (one of the first in 2010). I since sold it after coming to the realization that it was over-stiff for my taste. I recently picked up a Compact SL here in the classifieds to see if the frame rides the way I recall it did.

[m4rk540]

Originally Posted by Butch

With the integrated binder, there are several reasons we stopped using that. 1.We went to a larger diameter seat tube, we would have had to look at a possible redesign, 2. it is simply a lot more work and most importantly 3. a clamp works a lot better. The key to any system is to have the clamping force as concentric as possible with the bolt as close to the post as possible. The weld on system pinches the slot more, sometimes to the point of touching on the outside while pushing the inside into the seatpost. Not good. It was not a serious problem but the combo of using a bigger diameter seat tube and the same size post made it so the bolt and therefore the clamp was farther from the post itself.

Could this cause creaking?

[wgp]

Originally Posted by redir

FWIW my Compact is not an SL and has a nonreplaceable hangar.

My c 2006 Vamoots also has non-replaceable derailleur hanger. Just sold my RSL and sticking with the Vamoots - they have almost the exact same geometry (before the Vamoots was changed) and I love both the ride and the looks of the Vamoots with integrated binder and non-sloping TT. Recently took off most of the decals and like the more understated look ...

[iPaul]

Hey for those with a SL any chance your Mr. Moots rear brake bridge is facing backwards like my 2006 custom? Always thought it sat wrong but just felt mine was unique and special. Oh and mine has a one piece hanger. Tried to straighten, but never had the nerve to get it perfect with an alignment tool as it shifts fine. That 6/4 is strong stuff.

[denapista]

All of that guys pics are tagged Moots Compact though..
Where are you getting the SL stuff from to begin with?
You should probably send me the link so that I can inspect the frame myself after I send paypal..

[doomridesout]

Everyone who has an SL says it's sublime. I've never ridden one, but I had a Compact and it was sublime all on its own. Get the bike.

[Alaska Mike]

I have a Compact, which is my everyday ride. For me, the geometry just fits like no other bike I've ridden, and the balance of stiffness and compliance perfectly meets my everyday training needs. I loved the bike so much I bought another one I'm having S&S couplers installed on by Davidson Cycles for travel use. The Compact never fails to make me smile.

I'd love a Compact SL. I admit I'm tempted by any number of really, really nice ti frames out there (like the Eriksen in the classifieds). Then I take a ride on the Compact and I realize I have a better bike than I deserve, and one that I will likely ride until my legs fall off.

You can't ask for much more.

[pdonk]

Originally Posted by iPaul

Hey for those with a SL any chance your Mr. Moots rear brake bridge is facing backwards like my 2006 custom?

Mine is oriented the other way.

As per original question, it has a solid hanger and cut outside.

[wgp]

Originally Posted by Butch

I'll try and post a picture of this frame at some point, there are some custom details I didn't want to show while at Moots...

I’d also love to see this!

[NHAero]

Please say more about this. My understanding has been that various alloys, whether steel, aluminum, or titanium, vary substantially in the strength but that the modulus of elasticity, which determines stiffness, is pretty constant for each metal.

Originally Posted by Butch

For me the advantage of the 6/4 tube set is that we were able to get a stiffer feel with smaller diameter tubes which in turn are lighter.

[Butch]

With the modulus we all thought the same, that the two alloys should have the same properties of stiffness. When Reynolds had a local University test the two butted tubes they produced for stiffness the 6/4 tubes came out significantly stiffer. I attribute this to the process they use for butting the tubes which includes a mandrel set up that work hardens the material. This was what we found with the surface hardness as well and why it did not bead blast the same as the 3/2.5 tubes. Again, physically working with the material and then riding it reinforced this.

Binder question about creaking - probably not, but creaks are something that you just need to find the source for. I don't think that interface is common relative to so many other potential sources.

The brake bridge and Mr Moots headed the wrong way just proves humans made the bike... I think one of the welders at the time thought that might have been the right way to do it??

[Matthew]

My integrated binder has never creaked. My Ritchey post has, at the rail clamp.