Rotating Weight Doesn't Matter (GCN Content)

[vincenz]

Originally Posted by ergott

Let me put this in as simple terms as I can.

If you take two identical bikes and in one of them you add 400g of lead inside the rims and the other you add 400g of lead inside the frame the result will not significantly show up in any scenario. For every acceleration applied to the pedals from the rider there will be an equal amount of resistance to deceleration whether it's in the wheels or the frame.

That's the crux of the video, not whether a lighter combination of bicycle/wheels/rider is faster.

Except you don’t start your ride and not have to hit the brakes until you finish your ride. Let’s say city riding solo, that’s another scenario with lots of stop and go with no draft advantage so that crit racing example doesn’t hold up there.

In any case, there WAS a measurable difference and how “significant” it is comes down to how often you use your brakes so if we’re going to be absolute about it, weight, whether “rotational” or not, still matters.

[Toddykins]

No, not significant as in not perceptible by a human

[Nomadmax]

If I "think" a pair of lighter wheels makes a difference; they make a difference.

[weisan]

Physics and lab test results aside, one thing that is hard to quantify but certainly play a role in the overall is "how the rider feel". So much of it has to do with mental and how we perceive our effort during the ride. If something feels slow, heavy, dragging, sluggish, inertia kicking in...as a rider, it will affect us psychologically and it will be a tangible factor.

[Black Dog]

Originally Posted by Nomadmax

If I "think" a pair of lighter wheels makes a difference; they make a difference.

Originally Posted by weisan

Physics and lab test results aside, one thing that is hard to quantify but certainly play a role in the overall is "how the rider feel". So much of it has to do with mental and how we perceive our effort during the ride. If something feels slow, heavy, dragging, sluggish, inertia kicking in...as a rider, it will affect us psychologically and it will be a tangible factor.

I have decided to name this phenomenon the "Placebo Effect".

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by vincenz

Clickbait title.

If weight didn’t matter, why would manufacturers go to carbon instead of sticking with alu or steel? Make the wheels as heavy as possible for maximum aero and for durability.

Of course it matters. We don’t ride in a lab. We don’t pedal at one power consistently. Real riding and racing happens dynamically. If you have a 5kg bike with the lightest wheels possible and a 5.5kg bike with heavier wheels, the lighter one will be faster up the hill, everything else remaining equal. How would it not matter in that case? The guy in the video trying to sell his wheels confirmed as much. Weight is weight.

You say 'we don't ride in a lab', then 'all else being equal. Except in a lab, it never is. I think the point w/o wading thru 4 pages is yes, lighter takes less energy to do anything but the less weight thing is vastly overplayed by the marketeers..firmly in the 'is it worth it', camp..Is saving 300-400 grams 'worth' the $2500++ price tag of a set of wheels for 'possible' marginal gains..on a 71,000 or so(140 pound rider, 15 pound bike) bike and rider 'package'...

Remember, you can only measure 2 things when it comes to equipping your bike, weight and price.
What Mark M said...

The answer to the first question is: In most cases, whether weight is rotating or not rotating is mostly insignificant. The answer to the 2nd question is probably the more important: In just about every case, the improvements in aerodynamics with deeper, heavier rims outweighs any deficit due to their extra weight. The Swiss Side fellow is hardly the first to conclude this. Many engineers and researchers (who have no wheels to sell you) have reached the same conclusion. Here's two of them:

Quantify "matters".

No kidding...

[ergott]

Originally Posted by vincenz

so if we’re going to be absolute about it, weight, whether “rotational” or not, still matters.

Quantify "matters".

[bicycletricycle]

Originally Posted by Black Dog

I have decided to name this phenomenon the "Placebo Effect".

The placebo effect is real, it cures people of diseases.

[AngryScientist]

i dont even read these articles any more that attempt to scientifically quantify or explain what a rider should feel. same with the steel and comfort thread.

i've been riding long enough, and used enough varied equipment to know what i like, what works for me, and what feels the fastest and most comfortable.

if my perception does not line up with the science, i dont even want to know; i dont care. but i just ride for the enjoyment of riding and the fitness benefits, i'm not racing anyone.

[madsciencenow]

Originally Posted by bicycletricycle

The placebo effect is real, it cures people of diseases.

And is quantifiable if you wade into the behavioral psychology world.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ergott]

Originally Posted by eddief

how "different" will the feel be of each of those bikes?

flat, downhill, climbing? zero or significant?

Feel? They will feel noticeably different. I've compared a difference in rim weight of about a pound on the same bike.

Once difference in feel is most notable in how the bike turns in due to the gyroscopic effect. After riding the given wheels the difference tends to disappear in the noise of so much other stimuli experience while riding. There are so many other things to concentrate on during the ride.

The other is very steep climbs where you're barely getting over the pedals. You can feel the lighter wheels accelerate a bit faster, but you also notice they carry less speed over the weaker portions of your pedal stroke.

As mentioned in the video, the difference can be measured but it's not something that yields a significant difference. There's no realistic reason to deal in absolutes here.

[ergott]

Originally Posted by madsciencenow

And is quantifiable if you wade into the behavioral psychology world.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Then you can just tell the rider they are lighter and not bother upgrading the equipment.

"Hey this wheelset has a special internal carbon matrix layup schedule that drops 200g in each rim"

[Black Dog]

Originally Posted by bicycletricycle

The placebo effect is real, it cures people of diseases.

I agree 100% that the placebo effect is real.

[fignon's barber]

Originally Posted by charliedid

If wheels that spin up fast make me feel faster will I go faster?

I'm inclined to say yes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...ature=emb_logo

[Mikej]

Originally Posted by bicycletricycle

The placebo effect is real, it cures people of diseases.

There was a study last year or so about how even just telling people they are NOT getting the medicine helped them. Crazy. I'm all for light wheels. Ive ridden a 29er on the street, eff that.