Great piece on cycling/doping and European vs US Attitudes

Ray · #1 07-08-2009, 06:46 PM

I just found the new issue of Sports Illustrated in today's mail and there's a great short piece in the Scorecard section on the differences in US and European perceptions and attitudes about cycling as a sport and doping as a part of it. I liked it so much I looked for it on the web to shoot you folks a link. But it wasn't on the web - instead there's a MUCH longer piece written by the same guy from which the shorter piece in the magazine was edited out. It's somewhat long, but also very much worth a read.

If interested:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...our/index.html

-Ray

majorpat · #2 07-08-2009, 07:45 PM

Great read, for a guy who was one of those middle class, break-away geeks I'm glad to see an American paint an accurate picture of the european peloton. Now if Versus would just ease up on the hyperbole....

link · #3 07-08-2009, 08:25 PM

At one point in Parkin's "Dog In a Hat" he categorizes euro pro riders during the amphetamine era as being one or the other... "Riders who dope to race and riders who race to dope." Both types were well represented in the pro peloton.

Take from that what you will.

rwsaunders · #4 07-08-2009, 08:40 PM

Interesting article, Ray.

goonster · #5 07-09-2009, 05:38 AM

Great article.

The speech he gives to rookies notwithstanding, Vaughters sure goes all the way in cultivating the appearance of a wine-swilling aristocrat himself.

(mmm, Chateauneuf-du-Pape . . . )

th_boone · #6 07-09-2009, 06:02 AM

Thanks for posting. No surprise. It is still great racing (this week in the TDF is a fine example). However, it pisses me off. I really want to believe LeMond was clean, just not sure I can believe anyone at this point who ever got to the top...

johnnymossville · #7 07-09-2009, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goonster

Great article.

The speech he gives to rookies notwithstanding, Vaughters sure goes all the way in cultivating the appearance of a wine-swilling aristocrat himself.

(mmm, Chateauneuf-du-Pape . . . )

LOL! He's a dandy aint he?

Ray · #8 07-09-2009, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goonster

Great article.

The speech he gives to rookies notwithstanding, Vaughters sure goes all the way in cultivating the appearance of a wine-swilling aristocrat himself.

(mmm, Chateauneuf-du-Pape . . . )

He used to be a coal miner. Now he RUNS the coal mine. BIG BIG BIG difference!

-Ray

coopdog · #9 07-09-2009, 07:10 AM

Great article. Thanks for posting.

Climb01742 · #10 07-09-2009, 07:18 AM

mixed reactions here. the article (and the whole subject of PED) raises a deeper philosophical issue between what is and what ought to be. can't argue with what is in cycling but that don't make it right. reality isn't a philosophical argument or position. equally, appropriating an athletic ideal to sell sneakers doesn't negate the ideal or make the pursuit of that ideal less worthy -- it just illustrates the cynicism and opportunism of one approach to making money. just ain't nothing black and white. and just makes one (sigh) sigh.

Ray · #11 07-09-2009, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Climb01742

mixed reactions here. the article (and the whole subject of PED) raises a deeper philosophical issue between what is and what ought to be. can't argue with what is in cycling but that don't make it right. reality isn't a philosophical argument or position. equally, appropriating an athletic ideal to sell sneakers doesn't negate the ideal or make the pursuit of that ideal less worthy -- it just illustrates the cynicism and opportunism of one approach to making money. just ain't nothing black and white. and just makes one (sigh) sigh.

You're such an American, Climb.

-Ray

Climb01742 · #12 07-09-2009, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray

You're such an American, Climb.

-Ray

didn't the french fight the french revolution? didn't the english write magna carta? aren't many of the great philosophers european? i think the article's author grabbed a low-hanging but weak argument.

Ray · #13 07-09-2009, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Climb01742

didn't the french fight the french revolution? didn't the english write magna carta? aren't many of the great philosophers european? i think the article's author grabbed a low-hanging but weak argument.

First of all, I know you know I didn't mean that as a put down!

But I don't know that he was arguing right or wrong at all. I think he was explaining, quite well at that, the difference between the way Europeans and Americans look at cycing as a sport, where that sport fits into their societal strata, and how that also informs their opinions about doping. Obviously there are Americans who don't fit the American mold and Europeans who take more American attitudes. But clearly there are prevailing attitudes and they're different on either side of the pond for a variety of reasons.

I would like to think its possible to have high level sport without doping, but there's approximately NO evidence, either in Europe or here in the States, that it is possible. I'd also really like to think that humans, as a species, could get over the need to fight wars over territory, resources, ideology, or religion. And there's roughly no evidence of that either.

I think its entirely possible to hope for a brighter future and even plan for how it might be possible while still acknowledging the sometimes ugly reality of right now and yet still find a way to appreciate and enjoy right now. Because, as highly imperfect as it is, right now is all we have. And, even as things improve, utopia will always still be up around another bend or two, no?

-Ray

Kines · #14 07-09-2009, 09:29 AM

Interesting read, but clearly just an editorial, and self contradictory at that. If Euros were so "but of course" about doping, then what's a all the uproar about in the first place?

Sure, the attitudes between Americans and Euros are as different as our cultures, but he's making it sound like they actually want their heroes to be cheaters!

KN

goonster · #15 07-09-2009, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kines

If Euros were so "but of course" about doping, then what's a all the uproar about in the first place?

The article describes the attitudes within the cycling establishment. There has never been a great uproar within the metier "over there".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kines

he's making it sound like they actually want their heroes to be cheaters!

No he's not. He's explaining different definitions of "heroes" and "cheating".