OT: Vintage Audio - Turntables

[kingpin75s]

Originally Posted by djg

There's some cool stuff out there, no doubt, but it's also easy to get sucked into the stuff beyond the music, and the sorts of differences you can hear when you do a/b comparisons -- differences that aren't necessarily perceptible, much less meaningful, if you only have a or only have b. No, it's not all the same, and my own spending hasn't pretended otherwise, but . . . well, this is not an audio board, but if you're here, you know about the gear thing.

A/B comparisons should be both perceptible and meaningful if you are really talking HiFi. I was a skeptic coming in and have ben amazed by how audible EVERY change has been and I have documented 15 - 20 discreet changes from dealing with first reflections to interconnect, speaker and power cable changes.

Speakers were mentioned a bit ago and it does all end there in many ways as your speakers must be revealing enough to articulate back end changes. This can be significant but speaker technology has continued to get better and the price point for true HiFi keeps coming down.

As a reference I run Revel Concerta2 F36 towers and they are the big speakers in the cheapest Revel line. They articulate every change clearly. YMMV based on speakers and the chain behind. They continue to amaze my friends who all have much higher end Revel speakers and have a much deeper and wider breadth of experience.

[Bob Ross]

Originally Posted by kingpin75s

As a reference I run Revel Concerta2 F36 towers and they are the big speakers in the cheapest Revel line. They articulate every change clearly. YMMV based on speakers and the chain behind. They continue to amaze my friends who all have much higher end Revel speakers and have a much deeper and wider breadth of experience.

Just a quick comment on cheap [sic] Revel speakers: At the CEDIA Expo in San Diego last September I spent a lot of time in various manufacturer's demo rooms listening to sound systems that ranged from ~$10,000 to $500,000. One of the most striking rooms was the (relatively) modest Revel room...not because it sounded as good as the half million dollar systems, but because it didn't sound an order of magnitude worse. The Revel system, which all-in retailed for $17,000, was a much more impressive engineering feat than the >$250,000 JBL Synthesis system...and so at least in part because of that, left a much more visceral emotional response.

[William]

Someone asked about speakers...

Well, they are on the list since she'll need a pair to go with the TT and amp/Receiver. We are going to hit SDC in East Providence sometime this week and check out what they have. I don't think we'll hit the $10,000 to $500,000 demo rooms though.







William

[jtakeda]

Originally Posted by William

Someone asked about speakers...

Well, they are on the list since she'll need a pair to go with the TT and amp/Receiver. We are going to hit SDC in East Providence sometime this week and check out what they have. I don't think we'll hit the $10,000 to $500,000 demo rooms though.



William

Well I’m going to jump to conclusions and assume you’re getting some sort of solid state receiver.

If that’s the case I’d recommend a NAD power envelope or similar as your receiver and KEF or other smaller bookshelf speakers.
Affordable and mid quality while still enjoyable.

But to give an alternate scenario:
I have some klipsch forte speakers which are generally considered not a very good speaker but paired with the fisher receiver I have it sounds superb.
I’ve been looking for an upgrade in fact and I’m not sure I’ll find one without spending crazy money.

Sometimes it’s not about the sum of all the parts.

[kingpin75s]

Originally Posted by jtakeda

But to give an alternate scenario:
I have some klipsch forte speakers which are generally considered not a very good speaker but paired with the fisher receiver I have it sounds superb.
I’ve been looking for an upgrade in fact and I’m not sure I’ll find one without spending crazy money.

Sometimes it’s not about the sum of all the parts.

Correct. Synergy is key to dialing in a sound that suits your tastes.

IIRC the Forte speakers were very efficient and considered a little bright and forward so the pairing with a Fisher which generally have a warmer coloration creates a good balance for you.

[pcxmbfj]

I have an audio collection that started in 1972 with a Kenwood 800? integrated amp, deceased, matching tuner, and Technics SL-1100 manual turntable, still in the box.
My interest was primarily '70s silver faced receivers, amps, and tuners. Crown is a Pioneer SX-1010 receiver that I'm afraid to turn on for very long because I can't find anyone close to refurb.
Did the de-ox and some cable soldering but no successful recaps because bike accidents would interrupt and eyes got bad.
Rehabed a bunch of speakers, EPI, Technics, Bang & Olson, Cerwin Vega, even some "kubotos".
Another collection like my bikes, too hard to sell and too good to give away.

[Louis]

Originally Posted by pcxmbfj

Cerwin Vega

That takes me back!

In college the first pair of speakers I ever bought were some big Cerwin Vegas. (I have no idea what the model number was.) They were loud enough that once when I was in grad school they got us in trouble with the business school (Matt can tell you about them) that shared part the building with our dorm. We got a little too frisky one afternoon before all the office workers had gone home and they didn't appreciate our choices of Van Halen, Led Zep and A/C-D/C. (at least I'm guessing that's what we were cranking, and I'm 99.9999% sure I'm right)

For the ol' times:

https://youtu.be/OCwigPhpiXs

https://youtu.be/pAgnJDJN4VA

[djg]

Originally Posted by William

Someone asked about speakers...

Well, they are on the list since she'll need a pair to go with the TT and amp/Receiver. We are going to hit SDC in East Providence sometime this week and check out what they have. I don't think we'll hit the $10,000 to $500,000 demo rooms though.



William

Speakers can make a big difference, and different plausible choices can really strike folks differently in a way that other component choices might not. I was looking at "inexpensive" speakers for my second system not too long ago -- up to about 1,500 bucks, but I wanted to spend less. I listened to some things I didn't love (although some with terrible setups or source material), and then took a chance on some Wharfedale Diamond 10.7 towers from a shop that provided free shipping and a 60-day approval period -- and had them marked them down (last year's model) to 699 for a pair. They're easy to drive, have a very nice clear, neutral mid-range -- a good full range speaker (within reason) -- killer for the money and I really might say a bargain at twice the price. I don't know where you can audition them, unless you're passing through town. Music direct has them.

[djg]

Originally Posted by kingpin75s

A/B comparisons should be both perceptible and meaningful if you are really talking HiFi. I was a skeptic coming in and have ben amazed by how audible EVERY change has been and I have documented 15 - 20 discreet changes from dealing with first reflections to interconnect, speaker and power cable changes.

...

Yes, I used to do this for others, back in the day, scouting out gear at CES, assembling systems I couldn't afford for myself, even with substantial discounts, etc. My point was not that there are no differences, or even that they cannot be musically relevant. At the front end, I don't think anybody who has paid close attention would suggest that all cartridges sound the same; at the back, of course different speakers sound different -- as "everybody" (more or less) who has ever been in an audio shop has noticed, and not just because of volume changes. My point is not that it's all the same -- ludicrous -- or that there's nothing to appreciate about good gear PLUS good music (start with bad music, a bad performance, or a bad recording, and what the heck is the system supposed to do about it?). Rather, it is that we are attuned (evolved) to be sensitive to contrast or change in our environment. That "amplifies," if you will, our sense of difference in an a/b sampling in a way that's not always meaningful for pattern recognition or higher-level perception. And then, once you note the difference -- and make note of it -- well . . . It's a bit of an odd process. Ultimately, there's no point in arguing with folks about what they like or how much they like it -- you like what you like.

But we digress (substantially my fault).

[William]

So this is what I had in storage and it still works great. I don't know if it qualifies as "vintage" but it does have phono input. That said I do have a soft spot for Marantz, Yamaha, and others so I may still go that route. Options are good.







William

[William]

Anyone familiar with Harman kardon amps?




William

[Ronsonic]

Originally Posted by William

Anyone familiar with Harman kardon amps?

I've repaired / rebuilt a few. Still consider the Citation 2 a milestone of audio engineering. What have you got?

[William]

Originally Posted by Ronsonic

I've repaired / rebuilt a few. Still consider the Citation 2 a milestone of audio engineering. What have you got?

It's an HK6350R Integrated Amplifier. Both the price and the condition were very good so I picked it up. I set it up temporarily with a Sony CD player and old Fisher speakers to test it. Speakers are way underpowered for it but even so I was impressed by the clarity. Still hunting for a turntable and speakers to mate to it.

Power output: 60 watts per channel into 8Ω (stereo)

Frequency response: 0.5Hz to 150kHz

Damping factor: 65

Input sensitivity: 0.12mV (MC), 2.2mV (MM), 135mV (line)

Signal to noise ratio: 76dB (MC), 80dB (MM), 98dB (line)








William

[djg]

Originally Posted by William

It's an HK6350R Integrated Amplifier. Both the price and the condition were very good so I picked it up. I set it up temporarily with a Sony CD player and old Fisher speakers to test it. Speakers are way underpowered for it but even so I was impressed by the clarity. Still hunting for a turntable and speakers to mate to it.

Power output: 60 watts per channel into 8Ω (stereo)

Frequency response: 0.5Hz to 150kHz

Damping factor: 65

Input sensitivity: 0.12mV (MC), 2.2mV (MM), 135mV (line)

Signal to noise ratio: 76dB (MC), 80dB (MM), 98dB (line)

William

RI is a bit out of the way, but if anybody wanted to bother to repair my dad's old KEF C80 speakers, they could have them for the price of taking them from my home in Northern Virginia. I'm not going to ship them anywhere -- not sure it's worth it -- but if anybody passing through the DC area wants a project . . . hate to throw them away.

[William]

Originally Posted by djg

RI is a bit out of the way, but if anybody wanted to bother to repair my dad's old KEF C80 speakers, they could have them for the price of taking them from my home in Northern Virginia. I'm not going to ship them anywhere -- not sure it's worth it -- but if anybody passing through the DC area wants a project . . . hate to throw them away.

I'm a DIY kind of guy and I like projects, but DC is a bit out of the way for me and I have no plans to be down that way in the near future. Otherwise I would take it on.





William