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#31
06-20-2022, 06:39 AM
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#32
06-20-2022, 07:43 AM
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As others have said, take the amended fit on your existing bike and put in 500 miles. Do varying rides: long (as long as you ever realistically expect to do with any regularity) and a few shorter, faster ones. Assess how the bike feels and if you have any aches or pains. Then evaluate.
Bike fitting is also a process not an event. Your fitter may well have got you in the ballpark but some fine tuning may be needed. Remember as well there is always a compromise: the ‘perfect’ crit setup is not going to be the same as one for randonneuring, even for the same rider, so you need to be clear in your head as to what you want the bike to do. If in doubt, err on the conservative side. It might also be worth using a site like geometry geeks to find a bike with geo numbers very close to what you’re considering, if that’s possible. Find a used one, ride it for a few months* to trial the fit, then if you’re happy, you can probably flip it for little to no loss. I’d only commission a custom frame if I/when was very sure of my fit. If you subsequently decide it’s off, and need to sell, you will lose a lot of money. Last edited by callmeishmael; 06-20-2022 at 07:55 AM.
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#33
06-20-2022, 07:55 AM
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* As an aside, back in the day, if you went to Brian Rourke for a custom frame, Brian would adjust your current bike to what he saw as your ideal, then send you away for 3 months to ride it. It was only when you came back and said you were happy that he’d do a drawing.
If he felt your current bike was way off, he’d sell you one of the 5-6 old sizing bikes he kept in his workshop, and tell you to ride only that for 3 months. He charged over the odds for them, but the deal was always that he’d buy it back off you for 90% of what you paid when you put a deposit down on a new frame, or 100% if you wanted them to spec components too. That is, unless you crashed it, which a friend of my father’s did! He didn’t believe you could fit someone to a bike in an afternoon because people don’t ride the same way on a jig under no pressure and with no fatigue in the same way as they do after 40 miles in a pace line or 3.5 hours into a century on bad roads. Rourke only stopped doing this in the last decade as they (Brian’s son and the new business manager) apparently thought it was now commercially unviable. He was pretty curmudgeonly, blunt, and I always saw him as a bit of a grumpy old aginner, but as I get older, I’m starting to realise he talked an awful lot of sense (if not always very diplomatically!)
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#34
06-20-2022, 08:20 AM
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It's a process.. having gone a long time without a fit it's definitely important you finally went and got one, but that doesn't mean this person who fit you nailed it on the first try. If you were to go all they way to ordering an expensive custom frame you should be getting a second fit opinion, especially if you order from a custom place that is far away and can't in-person check you themselves. Ordering a custom frame when you've only been fit once by a pro and admit you're new to the whole thing and not that sure of what is right is a dangerous process. Custom frames do get made in the wrong sizes sometimes. And if you're newer to cycling and not that certain of your fit it's a lot easier for that to happen.
I also waited a ridiculously long time. I got my first road bike and they mostly just eyeballed it. They probably put me on a bike a little too big, but it had a quill stem and when I went back a few weeks laster and said it was hurting my wrist just raising the quill stem a little bit fixed it. I didn't get a "serious" fit till the start of my 4th season, at which point I had joined a team and there was a discount with the fitter who sponsored the team. That resulted in big changes to my fit. But I was riding hard enough it was immediately apparent the change was legit. At this point all these years later I've been fit a lot by a pretty good selection of people before really getting things figured out. You have to figure out what your goals and level are. How fast are you? Are you racing? What length of race or ride? How old? Do you have previous injuries? When the person fitting you suggests particular bikes it can be a combination of: - That's what they sell and are just trying to sell - It is still a good bike for you even if they're trying to sell something, they're just picking what they have that they know will work. - They could just be wrong, they got your fit wrong and now they're pushing you onto a bike that works for that wrong fit - They got your fit right but are still picking the wrong frame cause they misinterpreted your #s and are suggesting the wrong frame - A lot of fitters are biased to make everything cushy and comfy for everyone and will try to raise/shorten the reach to the bars on almost everyone. But others are the opposite and are trying to put everyone into a really aggressive position. That type tends to think their superior fitting ability is going to let everyone ride a super pro aggressive position and the only reason you think you can't get in that position is because you didn't have them helping you. If the fitter says a Domane or a Roubaix fits you better than the other bikes that you think are more racy/aggressive and he/she also sells.. you want to take that pretty seriously. Marketing might make you think you're slower on the Domane or Roubaix. Realistically? No, you are going to be faster on those bikes if you fit better on those bikes. If the fit is really legit and you don't like those bikes and want to go custom realize your custom bike is just going to end up fitting like a Domane or Roubaix anyway. A lot of custom bikes do. Maybe you make yourself feel better about it because your custom bike is not attached to "endurance" marketing. But it makes no difference, and you should never feel bad about what bike fits you anyway. The whole "endurance geometry" thing is just marketing nonsense. They are just bikes that fit a different set of people, and instead of just making more sizes of the "racier" bikes they just make a different bike to be able to kill multiple birds with the same # of rocks. A bike like a Domane or Roubaix is a more upright fit for an average proportioned person. For a person with longer legs and arms it is not. They end up fitting on them fairly aggressively just like a shorter arm/leg person does on a longer/lower bike. If you don't want Carbon or want different aesthetics that is all fine too. If your fit changed a lot and you ride pretty hard it should not take long to know if the fit changes were good. You should start feeling more powerful and faster pretty quickly. If they moved your saddle by centimeters and not millimeters and your original self taught fit was all wrong you should see pretty large improvements pretty quickly if you're out riding hard and doing intervals and such. If you have a power meter this kind of thing is pretty darn obvious. A good custom frame should nail the design down to your body so well that it provides plenty of room for you to adjust it to be a little easier to ride as you age or get out of shape, or have room to make it a little more aggressive for when you're in really good shape or decide you want to race or be more aggressive. It should come with everything set pretty much "right in the middle" as far as stem, spacers, saddle, etc.. so you can move anything in either direction without anything looking weird. Things like new shoes and shoe inserts can mess with your saddle position. A bike or custom frame that fits really well can handle changes like that well too. Last edited by benb; 06-20-2022 at 08:31 AM.
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#35
06-20-2022, 10:35 AM
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I believe in bike fit. Period. Stop. I would also caution you that at times some bike fitters feel compelled to make changes simply because they charged you $300-$400. It can be hard for a client to swallow the concept that they just paid good money for no change, or confirmation of what they already knew. Making changes can seem to justify the fee to the unknowing cyclist. I'm not jaded, hasn't happened to me, but have seen it happen a number of times. Try the changes for a while, see how it goes. Keep your same routine of stretching and body maintenance you typically do. Note changes in post ride feel - aches, pains, tightness. Also, if you utilize power metrics, analyze data before and after the changes. Food for thought.
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#36
06-20-2022, 11:14 AM
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Another point is miles ridden. How new to the sport are we? Have we acclimated to rolling miles and miles and hours and hours yet?? I think a fit too early may not be well spent money. But then again even 300 space bucks to have your position improved upon for the next 3-4 seasons until you are seasoned a bit amortizes out to near nothing. I'd not expect it to life altering, but it surely could be. In the scheme of a $8k+ bike, it is pocket change. And the wrong size $8K+ bike is an expensive mistake you will endure the misery of rolling on, in addition to moneys lost if you wind up having to resell it for a different size. It took 10k mile approx from my restart of cycling in the mid 90s to 'evolve' to the position I still ride, albeit 8-9CM of bar drop and a tad shorter reach than the 11CM drop when I wore a younger aggressive cyclist's cleats. And about the same difference in drop or close. A fit before that would have saved me the first year [2?] of being put on too small bikes, but not much else. The ordering process [road bike] with Carl Strong in 1999, with no physical disposition was the first really excellent fit I had to that date. Carl caught my long femurs, something no bike shop [high end] each with decades of experience had previously. Happy to sell me high end Treks and Litespeeds that stayed around for like a season each most. I rode that Strong road bike for 13 years, and everything since is based on the reach and stack, albeit a touch less reach and bit more stack. Age? maybe, 3500 mile years instead of 5-8k miles/year when 40-50 yrs old, maybe.
__________________
This foot tastes terrible! 
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#37
06-20-2022, 11:26 AM
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I typed up a long response last night, but I guess I didn't hit "submit." Well, that's annoying. I'll try and summarize what I wrote last night:
- Thanks everyone! I read everything twice, there's tons of useful advice here! - I got a fit because I was planning on a new gravel bike. I took my road bike because I believed it fit me best. I don't have any severe aches and pains, but have suffered from a few things over the years with some recurrence (toe numbness, patella pain, neck pain are the ones I'm thinking of). I have some old injuries from growing up riding BMX too. - I appreciate you all talking me off an edge as I was panicking about "quickly" getting two new bikes that fit. As I mentioned, my fitter gave me a sub-$100 fix for getting my road bike set up with his suggested parameters (80mm/+17d stem, and smaller bars: 40cm, 70-80mm drop, 125 reach). He also adjusted my cleat position, added wedges, and moved my saddle. I will absolutely ride this for at least a month. I've got a trip planned in two weeks where I'll get in a few longer rides too. I'm going to try and set up my gravel bike with the same fit, I'm not sure how close I'll get it (I don't think I can change the stem, Jamis has some adjustable stem that slots the steerer tube with a spline). - He talked me through everything he did, took video and photos, and will provide a full report early this week. He also evaluated my mobility (apparently my good mobility allowed me to ride a bike that didn't fit as well - but long term this wouldn't be good - particularly as I get older) and gave me a few stretches to do. I'm happy to post here and crowd-source my fit and see what you all think. He's willing to go back and forth with me on getting the fit right (via email, I assume another in person fit will cost something). This wasn't at a bike shop, it was a stand alone physical therapy and bike fitting company. Additionally, a friend went there in the past and came back with a lot fewer adjustments. So I've got some faith that they're not just trying to sell me something. He also suggested geometry geeks, which I haven't previously used. - Finally, I'll keep doing research on the bikes and builders suggested here. I've looked at quite a few of these before, but I'll reevaluate and keep thinking as I evaluate this fit. Maybe this will end up being a birthday purchase in the fall 
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#38
06-20-2022, 11:49 AM
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How dare he retire welding frames on us.! 
__________________
This foot tastes terrible!
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#41
06-20-2022, 03:17 PM
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__________________
Be the Reason Others Succeed
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#42
06-20-2022, 05:04 PM
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#44
06-20-2022, 05:20 PM
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__________________
This foot tastes terrible!
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#45
06-20-2022, 05:44 PM
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You're a west coast guy, so hop on a plane and fly to Portland or Seattle and talk to Breadwinner or Steve Hampsten, respectively.
Breadwinner is steel only, their B-Road sounds like it's made to meet your needs. My steel Breadwinner weighs less than a similarly configured carbon Diverge that I used to own. keep two wheelsets for my Breadwinner, 43mm tires on one for So AZ's gravel roads and the other with 32s for the (paved,) roads. Hampsten can design a bike in steel, ti or carbon, just tell him what you want. I have a steel Strada BIanca and a carbon Squadra. All these bikes are a blast to ride, each is a little different, but they are all fun. For what its worth, the cost of these custom frames was less than that of a high end production carbon frameset from the likes of Specialized, Trek, Parlee, etc. You're going to spend some money on the bikes you're considering, why not spend a few hundred dollars more to meet with a builder to insure you really get a bike that fits and performs how you want it to.
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