All-Road Geometry: experiences? do you like it?

[mhespenheide]

Originally Posted by Hellgate

28's, rest my case.

If that's what you find works for you, great.

[mhespenheide]

Originally Posted by Kirk007

I think a bike that can take 650b x 38/42 or 700 25-32 is a great all around bike. I'm not a big fan of 700 and greater than 32mm tires; I find a 650b wheelset a lot more fun with wider tires.

I find it amusing/awesome/apropos that your statement here is quite similar to Jan Heine's in one of his interviews (at the risk of getting people flaming over citing JH): widths up to 32 for 700c, up to 48 for 650b, wider is 26" territory.

I haven't ridden 650b yet, but I strongly suspect there's something to the diminished rotational inertia with the smaller rims. And the outer diameter ends up similar across all three wheel sizes.

[Andy sti]

I find it amusing that people tell me I don’t need anything more than a 23 mm Seta tub for riding gravel. Come here and let’s ride - my 40s and I will be waiting for you at the end.

[Kirk007]

Originally Posted by mhespenheide

I find it amusing/awesome/apropos that your statement here is quite similar to Jan Heine's in one of his interviews (at the risk of getting people flaming over citing JH): widths up to 32 for 700c, up to 48 for 650b, wider is 26" territory.

My tip came from Dave Kirk, and agreed upon by Tom Kellogg, that 32 was about the cutoff for when you start to lose the road bike feel and move into a different feel, and I think they're right.

[NHAero]

My sense of this is that the reason is the appropriate tire pressure for each width. Running the 650bx38 at 35-40 psi feels different than a 700Cx25 at 75-80 psi, and that matters more than the wheel size or tire width. I'm guessing that the wider tire at similar pressure may feel more like the skinny tire.

QUOTE=Kirk007;2987150]My tip came from Dave Kirk, and agreed upon by Tom Kellogg, that 32 was about the cutoff for when you start to lose the road bike feel and move into a different feel, and I think they're right.[/QUOTE]

[NHAero]

And no one needs gearing lower than a 39-25 either

Originally Posted by Hellgate

28's, rest my case.

[soulspinner]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

By the way, as I mentioned in another thread, I think the definition of "road" should be clarified. I use a stock honda civic as a litmus test. if you can not drive down it fine with a stock honda civic, it is not a road. it is a track or trail or something like that. In that manner, "all road" bikes really dont need any super aggressive tire clearance or other non roadish characteristics.

Mike Zanconato pioneered the "Road-32" moniker, and it sticks with me to this day. If i'm on a "road" - i like a road bike that fits up to 32mm tires. anything fatter than that is gravel bike or mtb territory for me; though again, those subcategories and definitions are subject to interpretation.

I like your definition of road.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by tomato coupe

What's "all road" geometry?

Glad somebody said it. Once upon a time..there were 2 interviews..one with Ernesto Colnago and one with Ugo DeRosa. Looking at their geometry charts for a 'road frame'..they were on opposite sides of the 'spectrum'..Colnago, steep seat tube and shortish top tube, DeRosa shallower seat tube and longer top tube..BOTH builder's said their geometries was 'ideal'....

[benb]

I think people are overreacting a bit to this term?

If I remember correctly "All Road" was a term in use prior to gravel being a big buzzword.

The "All Road" bikes of 2008-2013 kind of just got re-marketed and adapted into the "Gravel bikes" of today. I got my Space Horse in 2013 and I don't really think it was actually marketed as a gravel bike at that point.. it was marketed as an All Road bike and/or something that could be pressed into service for Cyclocross.

I'm trying to remember when I first heard "All Road Bike" but it was a long time ago. Maybe as far back as 2006 or so?

To make use of the Forest Service unpaved roads and the gravel rail trails here in Washington state your All road bike needs to be capable of traveling Subaru roads. 32mm is a little too narrow, 38 or 42 is the sweet spot, 48 gets plush.

I'm assuming this is a bit of comedy since there's pretty much no Subaru on the market which can keep up with even a road bike with 28s through the woods? I own an Outback and it'd get stuck way before things got exciting on an "All Road Bike" even with 32s.

[parris]

This thread reminds me of a couple bikes that seem to have fit the "all road" definition pretty well for a long time. The Serotta Slicker and the Kirk MRB models. Both were designed with expanded versatility especially when compared to the majority of road bikes of the time.

I test rode a Slicker a L O N G time ago and still kick myself for not picking one up when I was working in the shops.

[benb]

Serotta is a great example, I think they had a bike marketed as "All Road" in 2007 or 2008.

I kind of remember thinking about whether it was a good idea when I bought my Concours.

Maybe it's just me getting older but the roads have basically been getting worse and worse the entire time since I started road riding. So it's like this whole transition form 23c -> 25c -> 28c -> "all road" kind of corresponded to the progress of 20 years of not spending enough on road infrastructure.

[mhespenheide]

Originally Posted by benb

Maybe it's just me getting older but the roads have basically been getting worse and worse the entire time since I started road riding. So it's like this whole transition form 23c -> 25c -> 28c -> "all road" kind of corresponded to the progress of 20 years of not spending enough on road infrastructure.

Agreed. Racing as a junior in the late 80's in New York State, 23's were fine. Today, not so much. I think there's a real element of this for the folks who say something like "we rode everything in 25's back in the day!"

[AngryScientist]

Now this is a real pro "all road" bike; please note 22mm tubs.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/26516447050...gAAOSwsIJgop0y

This is a one of a kind professional Road Bike used in Training and the Spring season in 2001 in the UCI World Tour. Made for and used by Lars Michaelsen, Team Coast.

The bike is not only custom measured and made to the size of the Danish Classic specialist. It's also custom built for the early spring season. The biggest differences to
the regular racing bike of that season are the traditionally built 32 spoke wheels. (please note the extra weights for the perfect concentricity). Another difference is the
extra beefy steel fork instead of the regular carbon one, the double wrapped bar tape and abrasive papier in the bottle holder.

Rest of the bike is top of line in that particular time - super thin, air plane aluminium, reinforced and octagonal shaped tubing, Dura Ace 9x group set, Cinelli stem and handlebars,
Continental Pro Limited Tubulars and a racing gear display.

[benadrian]

Originally Posted by benb

I think people are overreacting a bit to this term?

If I remember correctly "All Road" was a term in use prior to gravel being a big buzzword.

The "All Road" bikes of 2008-2013 kind of just got re-marketed and adapted into the "Gravel bikes" of today. I got my Space Horse in 2013 and I don't really think it was actually marketed as a gravel bike at that point.. it was marketed as an All Road bike and/or something that could be pressed into service for Cyclocross.

I'm just looking for my "Endurance-Casual" bike.

[Clean39T]

Originally Posted by Andy sti

I find it amusing that people tell me I don’t need anything more than a 23 mm Seta tub for riding gravel. Come here and let’s ride - my 40s and I will be waiting for you at the end.

Let's be honest - if you were on 23s and I was on 40s, you'd still be waiting for me at the end....