All-Road Geometry: experiences? do you like it?

[benadrian]

I had a Trek Emonda. I thought it was a fantastic road bike. It had very quick handling. I loved it. I was not a racer, but it felt quick and climbed great.

Then I went on a trip to Hawaii and rented a Diverge to do some riding. I did some tarmac road and some dirt road riding. I had a blast. I always thought I wanted quick, nimble handling, but I had a much better time riding a bike with a slacker head tube.

I know it's personal taste, but I began noticing my distaste for my faster steering Emonda. I got a steel frame Space Horse for commuting and gravel riding. It's a bit more chill than the Emonda. I found that I was rarely riding my Trek.

I ended up selling the Emonda and getting a Salsa Warbird. I run 35mm slicks and can still keep up on group rides. I can put on burlier tires/wheels for trail and dirt, if needed. Really, though, it has a pretty slack 70.5 deg head tube angle and it's just a super stable, confident ride. It doesn't feel as quick or seem to climb as well as the Emonda on pure roads, but I've not measured anything. Plus, I'm a lot more comfortable and I'm having a lot more fun.

As we all know, it's personal taste and there's no wrong if you dig it. Mooch some friend's bikes, go on test rides, see what feel right to you. Man, bikes are fun

[Steve in SLO]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

I think the definition of "road" should be clarified. I use a stock honda civic as a litmus test. if you can not drive down it fine with a stock honda civic, it is not a road. it is a track or trail or something like that.

Great. Now I have to buy a Honda Civic to figure this stuff out.

[reuben]

Originally Posted by Steve in SLO

Great. Now I have to buy a Honda Civic to figure this stuff out.

Yeah, but it'll come with tubeless tires and disc brakes. Is that a win? You decide.

[Duvivr6]

You'll be surprised where people take Honda civics

Anyways I am accustomed to regular racey geometry bikes (supersix, izalco, C59) and sold my CX Ridley to buy a Domane worse mistake ever. It was comfy I give it that but it had numb feeling, made me work to turn fast and we just didn't get along. Sold it and now I miss my ridley.

Therefore your experience might vary on what you really want, i figured I can ride my 29er if i need to go off road and just stick to my road bike.

[Peter P.]

Is it more marketing BS? Another type of bike we're being seduced into thinking we need? What's the difference between all road geometry and gravel geometry? And does it matter?

As has been suggested, gearing and tire clearances are the big factors. The ability to fit wider tires for rougher surfaces is important. If you're riding predominantly on asphalt, there's no need for big tires.

I'll concede head angles will slacken and trail figures increase on all road bikes because it creates more stability when rough, rocky surfaces try to flick the front wheel left and right.

Otherwise, I see no reason to change seat angles, top tube length, or BB drop because you'll be riding off-pavement. And the only reason chainstay length on all road bikes is longer is to accommodate larger tires. An extra centimeter or so isn't going to make the ride more comfortable. At least not anywhere near those larger tires inflated to the proper pressure.

Yeah; I tend to think it's more marketing BS.

[Mark Davison]

To make use of the Forest Service unpaved roads and the gravel rail trails here in Washington state your All road bike needs to be capable of traveling Subaru roads. 32mm is a little too narrow, 38 or 42 is the sweet spot, 48 gets plush.

I'm having good luck with my new MAP randonneur style all-road bike. Front end geometry is classic French balloon tire touring bike geometry--73 degree HTA, 65mm fork offset, 440mm chain stay. I'm running 650B x 42. Resulting trail is about 35mm. (NHAero and I found a diagram of the French standard touring bike from the 40s. Trail was listed as a range, 30 to 50mm. So his Strong and my MAP would both up to old French standards.)

The large fork offset makes the steering feel match that of a narrow tired road bike on the road. Off road it allows you to dodge around potholes on the unpaved roads. Stability is not always what you want on unpaved roads.

What you give up with the normal road HTA and lower trail is the power steering feel of a MTB with slack HTA and wide handlebars, where you can quickly start a sharp turn. So the classic French all-road geo is not really sure footed on single track. I just get off and walk when I have to follow a twisty trail.

[Smitty2k1]

Mike Varley of Black Mountain Cycles fame is well thought of and this is what he has to say about his Road+ frames: https://blackmtncycles.com/frames/road-plus/

"The tubing is the same as the rim brake road frame, so it will have that nice plush, snappy feel."

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[Hellgate]

It's like an all terrain motorcycle, it doesn't do anything well. Buy a proper tool for the job and call it a day. A so-called quiver killer doesn't exist.

[NHAero]

In my case (Strong) I see this differently. I could put 700x25 wheel/tires on and it would function as a pure road bike. Biggest difference to my roadie Firefly is 12mm longer chainstays. Its HTA is actually slightly steeper than the Firefly.

Originally Posted by Hellgate

It's like an all terrain motorcycle, it doesn't do anything well. Buy a proper tool for the job and call it a day. A so-called quiver killer doesn't exist.

[Likes2ridefar]

Originally Posted by Hellgate

It's like an all terrain motorcycle, it doesn't do anything well. Buy a proper tool for the job and call it a day. A so-called quiver killer doesn't exist.

What is one supposed to do for a ride that has a mix of pavement, gravel, and single track?

[Hellgate]

Originally Posted by Likes2ridefar

What is one supposed to do for a ride that has a mix of pavement, gravel, and single track?

Bring a roadbike with 25 to 28mm tires and ride. Oh wait, we rode 23mm on a road frame off-road in the '80's. Otherwise, bring the right bike for the ride.


Likes and Aero you tell me as you appear to know better.

Sorry, there is no "perfect" do-it-all bike.

[Kirk007]

I think a bike that can take 650b x 38/42 or 700 25-32 is a great all around bike. I'm not a big fan of 700 and greater than 32mm tires; I find a 650b wheelset a lot more fun with wider tires. My Grevil+ may not be a perfect quiver killer, but for the road side of "all road" i. e not a pseudo hardtail MTN bike, it is in damn good. Below with WTO45s (top) and 650b with 38mm RH tires. Later this week I'll try 700 x 42s. And I suspect a custom bike of this design could really be all you need with no discernable downsides.



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[doomridesout]

I wasn’t searching for a quiver killer when I bought mine, just something that would expand what I thought of as road riding. I ride 650x38 or 650x42 light slicks and carbon wheels. 72.5 HTA with 51 rake. I would probably like a true road bike better on the 100 feet of smooth pavement here. I might like a bigger knobby tire on the gnarlier parts of my dirt road routes. I’m happy with my compromise because it’s just real world road riding where I live.

[NHAero]

Well put. No one is saying an all road is everything from a singletrack weapon to a crit bike. Hellgate may find 25-28s suit him fine on all surfaces, and it appears many others of us don't. Chacun a son gout. I have eight bikes, so you didn't hear me claiming any of them is a quiver killer. But that Grevil or Doom's Evergreen makes a fine road bike with those aforementioned 25-28 tires, as would my Strong.

Originally Posted by doomridesout

I wasn’t searching for a quiver killer when I bought mine, just something that would expand what I thought of as road riding. I ride 650x38 or 650x42 light slicks and carbon wheels. 72.5 HTA with 51 rake. I would probably like a true road bike better on the 100 feet of smooth pavement here. I might like a bigger knobby tire on the gnarlier parts of my dirt road routes. I’m happy with my compromise because it’s just real world road riding where I live.

[Hellgate]

28's, rest my case.