On Female Frame Builders…

[joevers]

Originally Posted by HenryA

What are the women mechanics doing answering the phone? They should be in the back workin’ on bikes.

You seem both fun and knowledgable about how bike shops operate.

[gdw]

Originally Posted by joevers

I literally work at a bike shop full time with women and I'm telling you this happens consistently. It's farfetched to you because it doesn't happen to you.

Where is your shop? Saudi Arabia?

[Chris]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

Did you not read joevers post about how women in the bicycle industry are treated?

His post is anecdotal. I worked at a shop that employed women and there were no problems with behavior toward them from employees or customers. Just because that was the case at our shop doesn’t mean the whole industry is as kind to women. Also, asking a female who answers the phone to speak to a mechanic does not mean she’s being treated poorly. It’s only a problem if the female says she is a mechanic and THEN the person says they want to speak to a male mechanic. Otherwise, the customer simply isn’t making assumptions about that person’s role in the business. Sounds courteous to me.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by Chris

His post is anecdotal. I worked at a shop that employed women and there were no problems with behavior toward them from employees or customers. Just because that was the case at our shop doesn’t mean the whole industry is as kind to women. Also, asking a female who answers the phone to speak to a mechanic does not mean she’s being treated poorly. It’s only a problem if the female says she is a mechanic and THEN the person says they want to speak to a male mechanic. Otherwise, the customer simply isn’t making assumptions about that person’s role in the business. Sounds courteous to me.

I'm not saying that you treat women in the bike industry poorly, or that women everywhere in the bike industry are treated poorly. I'm sure that poor treatment of women in the bike industry is not always a universal truth. But when you look at the huge gender imbalance in cycling (as compared to other sporting activities), it is hard to believe that it has happened naturally (i.e. it isn't just water finding its level). So it may be best to remain open to seeing ways in which the industry/sport is discouraging women.

[William]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

But when you look at the huge gender imbalance in cycling (as compared to other sporting activities), it is hard to believe that it has happened naturally (i.e. it isn't just water finding its level). So it may be best to remain open to seeing ways in which the industry/sport is discouraging women.

You seem to be assuming that the industry/sport IS actively discouraging women. As I mentioned earlier, it very well could be that it boils down to preferences. It's entirely possible that on average more men are apt to decide to give cycling a go than women are. That's actually more possible imo then some sort of industry drive to discourage women from the sport.






W.

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by joevers

You seem both fun and knowledgable about how bike shops operate.

Artfully played

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by William

You seem to be assuming that the industry/sport IS actively discouraging women. As I mentioned earlier, it very well could be that it boils down to preferences. It's entirely possible that on average more men are apt to decide to give cycling a go than women are. That's actually more possible imo then some sort of industry drive to discourage women from the sport.

No, I am not assuming that the industry is actively discouraging women. But I am being open to the idea. Particularly based on the gender imbalance, and the way historically other groups have been actively discouraged from various occupations and endevours, it seems entirely plausible. This is unlike others here who have already made up their minds that it isn't happening. Such discrimination is often covert and passive, rather than overt an active. But just because you don't see it on the surface, it doesn't mean it isn't happening. Too often, phrases like, "I don't see gender," really means, "I'm blind to how others treat gender".

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by William

You seem to be assuming that the industry/sport IS actively discouraging women. As I mentioned earlier, it very well could be that it boils down to preferences. It's entirely possible that on average more men are apt to decide to give cycling a go than women are. That's actually more possible imo then some sort of industry drive to discourage women from the sport.





W.

It’s an interesting question. I’m not sure the answer is “ingrained misogyny” at least, no more than any other facet of society. Maybe when it comes to female frame builders, it’s lack of exposure. Maybe it’s a dearth of imagination on the part of consumers.

[skitlets]

Originally Posted by Chris

Also, asking a female who answers the phone to speak to a mechanic does not mean she’s being treated poorly. It’s only a problem if the female says she is a mechanic and THEN the person says they want to speak to a male mechanic. Otherwise, the customer simply isn’t making assumptions about that person’s role in the business. Sounds courteous to me.

Isn't assuming that the woman answering the phone is not the mechanic, an assumption too? There are plenty of horror stories about women not being taking seriously, and yet people continue to close their eyes to it.

It's easier to think it's just "water finding it's level" than to consider that there might be discrimination, which would require one to rethink their world view and perhaps act in different ways. But no, if I think it's just a matter of preferences, or that individuals aren't working hard enough, then I can comfortably sit back and not have to do anything.

Originally Posted by William

You seem to be assuming that the industry/sport IS actively discouraging women. As I mentioned earlier, it very well could be that it boils down to preferences. It's entirely possible that on average more men are apt to decide to give cycling a go than women are. That's actually more possible imo then some sort of industry drive to discourage women from the sport.

The industry doesn't have to actively discourage women to actually do so.

[e-RICHIE]

As a career framebuilder following this thread and its several drifts I’m adding that my barber is a woman, as were the two before the one who presently cuts my hair. Barbers. Not stylists. Barber shops. Not salons. And all at one chair shops in the small towns I’ve lived in. The message is no one is keeping anyone from doing anything according to my opinion, out there or in here (the bicycle industry) where I work.

[HenryA]

Originally Posted by joevers

You seem both fun and knowledgable about how bike shops operate.

I am fun and knowledgeable.

30 years ago there were multiple gals (had to throw a little bait out) at the bike shop. Some were good at it, some not so much. Some lasted, most didn't, just like the guys.

If you work retail and are gonna get huffy every time you are not fully respected, you’re gonna be pretty unhappy much of the time. Even if you identify as a pedal wrench.

The job is to help the customer by selling them the correct tube and tire or adjusting the shifting so their bike works right. Its not to get validation of your feelings.

Validation comes on payday or when you get promoted or a raise or a customer thanks you or the boss praises your good effort. Do a good job and get rewarded.

[HenryA]

Originally Posted by gdw

Where is your shop? Saudi Arabia?

Thread closed!!!

[pdonk]

Bike rumour did a few podcasts with female builders. They are worth a listen.

Also shut up build bikes interviewed pedalino. It was also interesting.

[jtbadge]

Instead of hypothesizing on the internet or pretending there’s no problem, maybe actually ask women and people of color how they are treated in cycling communities and at bike shops. A lot of you will be surprised if you listen.

[joevers]

Originally Posted by William

It's entirely possible that on average more men are apt to decide to give cycling a go than women are.

I would strongly disagree with this and encourage you to think about why women commute at basically the same rate as men, but don't race or work in the industry at nearly the same rate. You'd probably learn a lot by googling something as simple as "sexism in the bike industry" and reading perspectives that come from other races, genders, and ages that are less than adequately represented in this thread.