On Female Frame Builders…

[Toddtwenty2]

I don't have much to add, other than lamenting no longer having Leah Stargardter making cool racks for bikes:

The Rack Lady - https://www.flickr.com/photos/26811168@N07

Her creations were pretty incredible. I contacted her in 2018, and she'd moved on to another career. I'm sure that her hourly wages very low for the amount of customer communication and work put into these racks.

[Spdntrxi]

I stopped reading at "white" who cares

[eurodude]

I had a frame built by a female welder that worked for Seven - she is no longer in the bike business. There is also a female welder at Moots. I would really like more female builders out there, women are just as capable as men so go girls

But as someone pointed out gender should not really matter - that has nothing to do with craftmanship.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by jamesdak

I have always been of the mindset that if you let society or anything else stop you from doing what you want then you are the problem. Not the "whatever" is discouraging you.

It's hard to want to do something if all you get is discouragement. Or if there are no examples of people that look like you who are doing something, to know that it is something you might want to do to begin with. Sure, some people want something enough to persevere regardless. But too many others who might also do well in a particular area will get side-railed before they get a real chance.

Today, about 37% of medical doctors are women. In 1950, about 6% of doctors were women. Are you saying that the only difference is that women just didn't want to be doctors hard enough in 1950?

[unterhausen]

I'm very conflicted about this. It's not exactly a great living. Encouraging someone to go into framebuilding is like encouraging them to get a job at arby's. Except Arby's pays better and there are no startup expenses.

I would help a woman builder as much as I could though.

[jamesdak]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

It's hard to want to do something if all you get is discouragement. Or if there are no examples of people that look like you who are doing something, to know that it is something you might want to do to begin with. Sure, some people want something enough to persevere regardless. But too many others who might also do well in a particular area will get side-railed before they get a real chance.

Today, about 37% of medical doctors are women. In 1950, about 6% of doctors were women. Are you saying that the only difference is that women just didn't want to be doctors hard enough in 1950?

You already answered it above. It's too easy to always just make excuses.

[slowpoke]

Originally Posted by prototoast

I'm going to go out on a limb and say the cost of feminine hygiene products is not the reason we don't see more female framebuilders.

[...]

I would love to see both the participants and industry of cycling have more gender diversity, but it strikes me as both crazy and patronizing to think that more women aren't becoming framebuilders because they spend more money on their hair.

My apologies, that was written in a way that may have de-emphasized the real inequalities. But I think it's safe to say that overall women are less likely to be in a financial position to turn framebuilding from an expensive hobby to a money-burning business. And this is in addition to other inequalities like time and even social connections available like you've mentioned.

My 18-25 extra cents.

[Big Dan]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

It's hard to want to do something if all you get is discouragement. Or if there are no examples of people that look like you who are doing something, to know that it is something you might want to do to begin with. Sure, some people want something enough to persevere regardless. But too many others who might also do well in a particular area will get side-railed before they get a real chance.

Today, about 37% of medical doctors are women. In 1950, about 6% of doctors were women. Are you saying that the only difference is that women just didn't want to be doctors hard enough in 1950?

I get your point.

[e-RICHIE]

Framebuilding is a job of work more so than it is craft or a creative outlet. But it’s still both depending on the era and the market. Most of it was supplanted when industrial made bicycles began to improve in manufacture as well as design. Still, the small numbers who thrive now came into the trade well-trained and with a past. They didn’t show up, take a class or build a few, and find someone to make their logo. The reason numbers are small(er) now is because the breeding ground for these people (factories, production shops, private label makers) are mostly gone and replaced by those whose frames come from molds. Framebuilders typically came out of arenas where larger numbers are made, and in a less romantic setting than some might assume. But it’s in these places where routine and repetition are the order, and one learns his chops. Or her chops. I’ll add that career folks I know haven’t taken a vow of poverty, nor do they accept the condition as part of the cost of independence. Most of what I wrote will also explain the reduced participation asked about on Dave Kirk’s thread.

And because this conversation is about women, let’s remember Lucille and Wanda.

[BobbyJones]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

Or if there are no examples of people that look like you who are doing something

There are no examples of people who look like me... or you, who are doing something....

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by jamesdak

You already answered it above. It's too easy to always just make excuses.

Yes, it is easy to make excuses, as you've just demonstrated. Saying that the only reason some people aren't getting as far as others is simply because "they aren't trying hard enough" is usually just an easy excuse. Like, why there were fewer women doctors (or lawyers or CEOs) in 1950 is because fewer women "were willing work hard enough", is just an easy excuse, as if the society around them had nothing to do with it.

[Blue Jays]

Gender of the builder has never been a consideration factor at all for me.
The quality, performance, aesthetics, and "vibe" of frames attract my dollars.
My next bicycle will be suitable for fireroads and similar. Will be open to all!

[Bruce K]

My son has a really unique Squid CX bike from Emily Kachorek.

BK

[GParkes]

I have friends (a husband and wife team) that were business colleagues in a consulting group. They changed gears/careers and the lady went back to doing what she studied in school and practiced for years..............metal sculpting/art. Given the high quality of that work, I'm more than certain that if she wanted to build a bike frame (having learned of the specific needs and qualities of a given bike's performance requirements), she could do it in a heartbeat. Screw gender, light that torch! Just saying.................

[yinzerniner]

The factory tour at Allied shows plenty of women (honestly, probably a majority) working in carbon layup:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hz7R...=GravelCyclist

If anything I would think female's generally smaller hands are better for carbon layup, getting into small spaces and bends of the mold.

But The Radavist does a great job of showcasing female, minority and underrepresented folk who contribute to all types of cycling enjoyment.

Articles like this:
https://theradavist.com/2021/09/file...n-mexico-city/
and this:
https://theradavist.com/2021/08/wzrd...al-collection/