OT: World War II started 80 years ago today....

[akelman]

Or this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJGo...2ozszvPQQG-Q5O.

[echappist]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

At least we got some good Woody Guthrie songs out of the deal.

[Louis]

Originally Posted by Jeff N.

Hitler, Himmler, Heydrich, Goering, Rohm, Goebbels, Streicher, Hess, Kaltenbrunner, et.al......as has been said, historians in general are amazed that scum like these guys could be in the same place, at the same time, in history. I certainly am.

It wasn't magic or coincidence - I think just about every country at any point in history has plenty of that sort of people around, in government and out.

It's just that they usually don't have as much power (political and military) as those guys.

[HenryA]

I’m inclined to think that WW2 started at the end of WW1. It would be interesting to read a history of that time period written one or two hundred years from now.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by Lanternrouge

That's only if you count the European start of the war versus its start in Asia with the invasion of Manchuria.

Well, that certainly started a war, but it didn't start a World War. Both World Wars started when otherwise non-involved countries declared war due to mutual defense alliances. World War II did not start when Germany annexed Austria, and it did not start when Germany invaded Czechoslovakia. It only started when Germany invaded Poland, and Poland's allies England and France declared war on Germany in response. Soon, many other nations became involved, and it became a true World War. The US was also dragged into the European war due to alliances and treaties - after the US was attacked by Japan causing the US to declare ware on Japan, Germany then declared war on the US because they had a mutual defense treaty with Japan.

[Clean39T]

I read a great book that was published within the last 3 yrs or so that was all about Europe before WW2 - and I can't for the life of me remember the name of it...

Found it: https://www.amazon.com/Black-Earth-H...dp/1101903457/

Black Earth, the Holocaust as History and Warning, by Timothy Snyder (who wrote "On Tyranny")

[Jeff N.]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

Well, that certainly started a war, but it didn't start a World War. Both World Wars started when otherwise non-involved countries declared war due to mutual defense alliances. World War II did not start when Germany annexed Austria, and it did not start when Germany invaded Czechoslovakia. It only started when Germany invaded Poland, and Poland's allies England and France declared war on Germany in response. Soon, many other nations became involved, and it became a true World War. The US was also dragged into the European war due to alliances and treaties - after the US was attacked by Japan causing the US to declare ware on Japan, Germany then declared war on the US because they had a mutual defense treaty with Japan.

Precisely.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Lanternrouge

That's only if you count the European start of the war versus its start in Asia with the invasion of Manchuria.

Or the inevitability of WW2 after the 'agreements' of WW1...

there are many good explanations for the rise of the Nazi party in Germany and for the reasons that so-called ordinary Germans went along for the ride.

The Treaty of Versailles

The Treaty of Versailles helped cause WW2 by, Territorial loss, Military restrictions, and the “War Guilt Clause”. The Treaty helped cause WW2 by severely weakening Germany through territorial losses. Germany was forced to give up all their possessions (Africa).

The Treaty of Versailles aided in the outbreak of World War II because it left Germany weak, unstable, and open to fascist rulers taking over

When Adolf Hitler became Chancellor of Germany in January 1933, he was determined to overturn the Treaty of Versailles. He took a series of steps throughout the 1930s to achieve this: Germany's rearmament and other acts of defiance. Also, the reaction (or lack of reaction) from Britain and France.

[Jeff N.]

OK now, TODAY, the Japanese surrendered 74 years ago!

[bigbill]

Originally Posted by Jeff N.

OK now, TODAY, the Japanese surrendered 74 years ago!

I visited the USS Missouri many times while stationed at Pearl Harbor. The surrender deck has a plaque and many pictures. It's very surreal to stand on that spot knowing the significance.

A little OT, many years ago the city of Bremerton, WA was campaigning to keep the Missouri in Bremerton (it was mothballed in the local shipyard) but we were all happy when the decision was made to tow it to Pearl Harbor. To look at Ford Island each morning from my office and see the beginning (Arizona) and end of WW2 on display. I liked the symbolism of the Missouri standing guard over the Arizona.

[Ken Robb]

Originally Posted by bigbill

I visited the USS Missouri many times while stationed at Pearl Harbor. The surrender deck has a plaque and many pictures. It's very surreal to stand on that spot knowing the significance.

A little OT, many years ago the city of Bremerton, WA was campaigning to keep the Missouri in Bremerton (it was mothballed in the local shipyard) but we were all happy when the decision was made to tow it to Pearl Harbor. To look at Ford Island each morning from my office and see the beginning (Arizona) and end of WW2 on display. I liked the symbolism of the Missouri standing guard over the Arizona.

Thanks for the verbal picture. I've never been there so I wouldn't have thought of the area as the Alpha-Omega of the USA's WW II.

[jet sanchez]

My grandfather fought in the Pacific theatre with the ANZAC forces....he survived and did talk about some of his experiences which I still think about quite often.

His experience fighting isn't what is hard for me to imagine however, it was his decision to leave his wife and three kids to go off and fight a war at the age of 33.

It was such a different time, I don't think we will ever see the likes of him and his generation ever again.

[Ozz]

Originally Posted by bigbill

...A little OT, many years ago the city of Bremerton, WA was campaigning to keep the Missouri in Bremerton (it was mothballed in the local shipyard) but we were all happy when the decision was made to tow it to Pearl Harbor. To look at Ford Island each morning from my office and see the beginning (Arizona) and end of WW2 on display. I liked the symbolism of the Missouri standing guard over the Arizona.

It was open as a museum in Bremerton....but yes, most of it was mothballed up, probably to control maintenance costs.

Regardless....Pearl Harbor is a better place for it....I was on the beach in West Seattle when they towed it thru Puget Sound on it's way to Pearl....very impressive.

[peanutgallery]

A lot to unpack with WW2

How would the whole Bismark thing have worked out if it took place in 1944? In 5-6 years we went from plywood and canvas Swordfish utilizing semaphor to jets, atomic bombs and enhanced communication. Radar, technology, communication, logistics, effective espionage and more...all grew at a exponential rate. Just what the blocking and tackling of a nation-state looked like changed immensely. The way power was projected by a country in 1945 did not involve sailing 2 battleships to Singapore in November 1941...the 1780s were over

On the other side of the coin...human life and how it was treated changed too. Fire bombing, holocaust, atomic weapons. Combatants and non-combatants, alike suffered in ways it is hard for us to imagine...not that long ago

England, Germany and France went from imperial powers to brigade strength and Russia/USA were awoken

The craziest thing, the Eastern Front. Gutter fight to the death...literally. Look at the timeline and statistics, it was totally out of hand. US/England had it easy in comparison

Tough times...tough people. Thanks Gramps

[cnighbor1]

Originally Posted by Jeff N.

....with the Nazi invasion of Poland. Thank God we don't all speak German today!

Consider this If Germany never went into Russia and left England alone
USA would never have gotten into W11 and Europe would have been all in Germany and Italian control
We were coming out of recession and without the need to go to war would have taken decades to even get a bit close to Germany’s economy power house