The ongoing hookless rims saga

[benb]

This article is linked on the WW page that was just linked. It's an excellent article:

https://escapecollective.com/thomas-...arning-to-all/

There is a comment in there that Zipp has now filed for a patent on a method to bond a hook onto the rim after the initial molding. This would get them the cheaper method for the main mold process plus the safety of a hook.

Going to be a riot if they all change back to hooks in the end and start telling us hooks are great again.. figuring out a better way to make the hook seems like a better solution than eliminating it.

[Spdntrxi]

Originally Posted by benb

This article is linked on the WW page that was just linked. It's an excellent article:

https://escapecollective.com/thomas-...arning-to-all/

There is a comment in there that Zipp has now filed for a patent on a method to bond a hook onto the rim after the initial molding. This would get them the cheaper method for the main mold process plus the safety of a hook.

Going to be a riot if they all change back to hooks in the end and start telling us hooks are great again.. figuring out a better way to make the hook seems like a better solution than eliminating it.

agreed going back to hooks and claiming anything at this point is a bad look. I'm not tied to hookless, just so happens that my quiver contains 4 sets of hookless. Has not always been like that.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by Spdntrxi

agreed going back to hooks and claiming anything at this point is a bad look. I'm not tied to hookless, just so happens that my quiver contains 4 sets of hookless. Has not always been like that.

Well, a number of frame/bike makers have gone back to threaded BBs after a few years using pressed in BBs, so anything is possible.

Bicycle product technology has moved in oscillating cycles for decades. First it was short cranks, then it was long cranks, now its short cranks again. First it was round chainrings, then it was eccentric chainrings, then it was round chainrings again, then it was eccentric chainrings again, then it was round chainrings ... And for clincher rims, first it was hookless, then it was hooked, then it was hookless again, and for all we know it may go back to hooked.

[benb]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

Well, a number of frame/bike makers have gone back to threaded BBs after a few years using pressed in BBs, so anything is possible.

Bicycle product technology has moved in oscillating cycles for decades. First it was short cranks, then it was long cranks, now its short cranks again. First it was round chainrings, then it was eccentric chainrings, then it was round chainrings again, then it was eccentric chainrings again, then it was round chainrings ... And for clincher rims, first it was hookless, then it was hooked, then it was hookless again, and for all we know it may go back to hooked.

To a certain extent when they reverse themselves I think it shows they're not doing enough testing and/or are using consumers as their testers.

They are most certainly trying to use Pro riders as testers from some of the Pro accounts.

Which is all disgusting considering the cost increases.

[benb]

https://youtu.be/YJc3DVVcTuM?si=n_kzjopaKol-Y2nx&t=277

Actually SRAM was granted the patent.

This guy talks about it and if you were motivated you can get the patent # out of the video.

[November Dave]

Manufacturing hooked rims was made more difficult by the resins that were needed to make rim brake rims that were more resistant to being destroyed by braking heat. The properties of and additives introduced to these resins didn't flow as readily as simpler resins do. So our arc was seeing a lot less brake heat damage, but a ton more rims with unacceptable hooks. We saw this across a lot of brands, too.

Since disc brakes allow simpler resins to be used and the cooking procedures are much less fidgety, I built like 1000 rims without ever seeing other than a perfectly molded hook. We never saw impact damage to hooks on hooked disc rims.

Hooks still require a more complex mold and molding/demolding process.

If hookless is going to be stronger than hooked, the rim will be nominally heavier than an equivalent hooked rim because the sidewall in that hookless rim is thicker. The material makes it stronger, the lack of material makes it lighter. If can't have more material and be lighter.

Aero impacts will be dominated by the inner and outer width of the rim and how they compare to the tire's width. How the bead of the tire interacts inside of the rim below the hook will have at most a small effect on tire shape. I suspect that people are pulling this claim of better aero out of their backsides, but who knows?

There's no doubt that molding hookless rims is more efficient than molding hooked rims.

I personally use hookless on mtb and hooks on everything else.