#61
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We've been riding these "Open Tubular" tires for decades. There were Hutchinson A.S. Coton Turbo tires in the 90's, I rode those. Vittoria has made cotton cased "Open Corsa" tires for years - I have 5 pairs in use right now. And there's Veloflex, and Challenge, and perhaps others...
And now ENVE says that bike shops shouldn't support these tires because they fail. Really? I think ENVE has drawn more attention to their own product with this advice. If we're told that a natural fiber casing is cut and damaged, what makes anyone think that a synthetic casing will be unaffected? This sounds like a rim problem to me. Maybe ENVE should work to improve the rim/tire interface on their rims to reduce the abrasion and cutting damage being done to these tires. Last edited by Ed-B; 03-07-2019 at 07:05 PM. |
#62
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On a related note, for those who want to live dangerously, Vittoria has just released the Corsa Graphene 2.0. They say it has 40% better rolling resistance, 40% more durable, and 30% better grip. No mention of spontaneous explosion or death though.
https://bikerumor.com/2019/02/27/vit...ene-2-0-tires/
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#63
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Love the Open Corsa CX
Ergott is right.
This is an Enve problem (-or any other company w/poorly finished hooks)...NOT a Vittoria problem. I am not a wheel builder other than for myself and I recently had to send back two of their rims due to dangerously jagged hooks. I have no idea how these made it past QC and out the door. On the other hand, three sets of carbon clinchers from Light Bicycle have been immaculate at 1/4 of the cost. |
#64
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Last edited by Tony; 03-08-2019 at 11:11 AM. |
#65
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#66
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I would have thought that the hand-made clinchers would all have a cloth chafer strip protecting the casing against the edges of the rim(?).
One other "open tubular" design aspect seems to be that a two-ply casing material is folded and glued around the beads, rather than a single ply folded over the bead and then extended to overlap under the tread for a flat-resisting three plies there. This gives the open tubular casing a minimal two plies under the tread instead of the usual three as used in the typical clincher tire. This doesn't count any added belts of course. I also am wondering what/if the open tubular tire's more-supple casing is resulting in pressure-related issues with the rim, since these supple tires do need higher pressure to achieve the same stability on the rim. And as for the rims, I see a lot of material having been removed from modern rim's bead/sidewall area over recent years, and ENVE did mention that even some alloy rims were shown to cause open tubular tires to be failure-prone. Time to start add adding a more generous radius there? |
#67
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A bunch of silly names... "Tubular Clincher", "Open Tubular". Maybe I will launch "basketsquares" or "footsquares" or "basesquares". They will be spheres, but I'll call them Squares. On the Open Tubulars.. these things save tiny grams and tiny watts, if it turns out they get that by being dangerous on some rims I bet these tires disappear. It seems there is nothing wrong with these tires and nothing wrong with the Enve rims but we don't have true system integration with a lot of bike stuff.. it's consumer integrated. Not really tested. I had a set of Velomax/Easton wheels. Nothing wrong with them. I got some Vredstein tires at one point. Nothing wrong with them. They did not work together, I had several blowoffs. But I bet there were no off the shelf bikes that were shipping with that combo. Last edited by benb; 03-08-2019 at 01:00 PM. |
#68
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truth!!!!
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SPOKE Life's too short to ride cheap bikes! |
#69
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sorry for being that guy who doesn't read the whole thread...
but i've run vittorias and other open tubs on enve rims quite a bit without issue. i do tend to wear out these kinds of tires faster than others, so perhaps my anecdotal experience is skewed. THAT SAID... ENVE rims have always been really, really, really ****ing good at cutting apart tires on the mountain (read: tubeless) side. i will readily admit that my experience with ENVE post-road tubeless capability is minimal. are the road rims now suffering from the same issue as tubeless comes into vogue? in any case, long live the ENVE 25. may it always be available secondhand. ps: if you run challenge clinchers you may have a penchant for large medical bills, on any rim. |
#70
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Will be interesting to see if any of the other manufacturers ENVE is referring to follow suit in issuing warnings or if Vittoria follows Veloflex in recommending that their Open Corsa's not be used with carbon wheels. If that doesn't happen, would have to think this is more about ENVE than Vittoria. Admittedly, I hope so, as have Vittoria Open Corsa's on all my bikes, including carbon wheels - Campy not ENVE. No issues with the combo, and Vittoria's don't seem more puncture prone than the GP4II I used previously or the Michelin OP 3-4 which were horrible. Besides the Vittoria's ride nicer. IMHO
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#71
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Seems fairly straight forward: a carbon semi-unfinished / rough / sharp edge and cotton sidewalls.
Not Vittoria’s fault and I don’t hear anyone saying they have issues with (Vittoria cotton) and Mavic, DT, Specialized, NOX, Zipp, etc. Seems like an Enve issue and I don’t think you can simply chalk it up to QC. Maybe a design issue. |
#72
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#73
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#74
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didnt read all the responses, but the initial release from ENVE is ridiculous IMO.
reading between the lines they are claiming that open tubular construction tires are not safe on any rims, not just theirs. that's just crazy talk. veloflex and vittoria open tires are my favorites and i, along with many others have tens of thousands of miles on them. not fair of enve to call out the wildly popular vittoria corsa as "unsafe".
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#75
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