What-a-ya think about the brochure??? (caution, Serotta content)

[charliedid]

Originally Posted by PaMtbRider

In an earlier thread someone from 22 replied that they have nothing to do with these bikes


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Thanks for clearing that...

[nmrt]

+1.
Cannot find the thread, but it is on PL somewhere. Bryce or Mike from No.22 said that they were most definitely NOT making these Serotta bikes.

[SoCalSteve]

Originally Posted by Monsieur Toast

I cannot unsee the rear brake cabling. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

I cannot imagine anyone spending that much money on a bike and have the cabling exposed. Is that lesson 101 of modern bike building?

[SPOKE]

Based upon the tube shapes shown in the brochure it looks a hydroforming process is used at least on a few of the tubes. Pretty trick process. Not sure if it’s more or less expensive than the old butting process that was setup at the old shop. I’d really like to see one up close. My guess is the frames (or tubes) are sourced from a highly technical Taiwan operation.
Cheers....SPOKE

[FlashUNC]

I....don't get it. But hope this re-re-re-relaunch works out.

I'd say he still desperately needs better marketing advice.

[terry]

I have no interest in a disk brake bike but I do wish Ben all the success he deserves. I’m ignorant on this issue but can anybody list the number of national champions & Tour de France bikes Mosaic/moots/22/firefly have produced? Thanks.

[charliedid]

Originally Posted by SPOKE

Based upon the tube shapes shown in the brochure it looks a hydroforming process is used at least on a few of the tubes. Pretty trick process. Not sure if it’s more or less expensive than the old butting process that was setup at the old shop. I’d really like to see one up close. My guess is the frames (or tubes) are sourced from a highly technical Taiwan operation.
Cheers....SPOKE

I believe you are right. Most articles have mentioned Taiwan as the source of production of tubes and forks with East Coast final production.

At least we know the general vicinity!

[pdmtong]

Originally Posted by terry

I have no interest in a disk brake bike but I do wish Ben all the success he deserves. I’m ignorant on this issue but can anybody list the number of national champions & Tour de France bikes Mosaic/moots/22/firefly have produced? Thanks.

of course the number is zero but what does it matter? ben's wins were from an era that no longer exists in a field of elite builders that was much much smaller.

this is not to say he can't build a great bike but more to say that there are many others who now can too.

[FlashUNC]

Originally Posted by terry

I have no interest in a disk brake bike but I do wish Ben all the success he deserves. I’m ignorant on this issue but can anybody list the number of national champions & Tour de France bikes Mosaic/moots/22/firefly have produced? Thanks.

The more apt comparison might be how many major gravel races they've won.

A 30 year old palmares on the road doesn't exactly carry cachet with the gravel crowd.

Again, he needs better marketing advice.

[Hilltopperny]

Not sure why they went with an externally routed line under the down tube like that. It makes an otherwise nice looking frame looks kind of silly by today’s standards.

People paying a premium for a bike will likely want a clean looking set up and that just isn’t clean.


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[rallizes]

Originally Posted by nmrt

+1.
Cannot find the thread, but it is on PL somewhere. Bryce or Mike from No.22 said that they were most definitely NOT making these Serotta bikes.

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showt...t=No.22&page=8

see post #109

"I'm late to this thread, but just to chime in from No. 22: we have no involvement in this project at all. The only bikes that roll out of our doors are our own, and we have no plans (or frankly, excess capacity!) to build for other titanium brands.

Sorry to disappoint! "

- 22Mike

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by mcteague

I can already hear the rear brake cable rattling against the down tube.

Tim

I don’t love the look but I do love the simplicity. My Zanconato is similarly built and there’s no rattling.

These look like nice bikes but I’m probably not a potential customer. And that’s what he needs.

[54ny77]

the real magic of the serotta brand was the actual people doing the fabrication, the finishing, the painting. speaking as a serotta owner, i'm blown away at the craftsmanship of what i'm fortunate to own. it's top notch.

unfortunately for the brand, them fine folks have long left the building. and now they're doing amazing things elsewhere. that's where i'd go for a new rig of a similar genre.

that external cabling thing...schlocky. oh well.

[happycampyer]

Originally Posted by rallizes

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showt...t=No.22&page=8

see post #109

That was a very polite reply from Mike at No. 22. Given the terms on which the team from Serotta/Saratoga Frameworks parted, I would be shocked (no pun intended) that they would be willing to build anything for Ben.

The things that set a Legend apart from other ti bikes are all of the refined processes (butting, swaging, complex machining, etc.). Serotta has been vindicated in that virtually all of those refinements can be found in one builder’s bikes or another—but there is no builder that has combined all of the refinements of a Legend in a single frame.

These frames seem to be in a similar boat. Perhaps they are as close as one is going to get to a modern-day Legend, but the rear triangle looks fairly generic, and probably needs to be to deal with disc brake forces. The swaging on the downtubes has the “baseball” effect of early Legends/Ottrotts. Perhaps the shaping is done by a different process, and the gradual taper isn’t as easy to achieve(?).

The external rear brake cable is a deal-breaker for me. I recall Serotta having concerns about holes for internal cable routing with the triple-butted tubes bitd, and I hope they can figure this out with their current tubesets. From what I have heard, companies like Moots and Seven were losing sales to boutique builders who offered options like anodization, internal cable routing, etc., and they finally got on the bandwagon (or at least partially).

A limited run of 100 bikes makes no sense to me, either. Frankly, these look like advanced prototypes to me, and I’d hope that the second 100 are better than the first.

I own an embarrassing number of Serottas, and I have a lot of respect for what Ben has created in the past. Sadly, these bikes don’t excite me, and the puffery of his sales literature is tiresome. I wish Ben every success, but if this is what the first 100 bikes look like, I’ll wait for the next batch.

[jpw]

Something tells me he's reading this thread with interest, and taking notes. If he is then he has a chance.