The Search for a Carbon Bike that Feels like a Metal Bike

[RyanH]

I've had a lot of bikes over the last 6 years or so but one of my first was a Ti bike and since then, it's been my preferred material. Part of the reason I've had so many bikes is because I want to see if carbon is there yet in replicating the feel of a good metal bike and usually I'm disappointed. For me, there are two aspects of a good metal bike that carbon seems to struggle to replicate: springiness/liveliness when pedaling and smoothness, particularly felt through the feet.

My current bike I'm dabbling with is the new 2022 Crux which I have setup in road mode. It's a stellar bike and probably the best descending bike I've ever had. It has that liveliness when pedaling but I keep getting the sense that I'm more beat up after a long ride on that bike than my Litespeed. The two bikes have the same contact points (same bars, saddle) and the Crux has an advantage since it's running 29.5mm actual (28 label) Turbo Cottons while the Litespeed has size 25 Turbo Cottons (27.5 measured).

The thing I noticed last weekend is that over rough tarmac, while the Crux does a good job muting jarring hits in the rear (butt) and front (hands), my feet physically hurt when the impacts come. This adds up over the course of a 60 mile ride and I just feel beat up at the end. I think it's taken me all this time to realize this but it's that jarring through the feet that keeps me going back to Ti. I paid attention to how the Litespeed reacts over broken pavement since then and the impacts feel muted, none of them result in pain in the feet. My hands or ass will feel a sharp pain from a sudden jolt but the feedback through the pedals is always significantly reduced.

My question to you all that ride metal bikes, do you know what I'm talking about and have you ridden any carbon bikes that do have that smoothness?

For those curious why I'm asking or even trying to go away from Ti if I like it so much, the short answer is that I want a new bike that descends like the Crux, is disc and sub 6.8kg. It'll be a tall task getting a metal disc bike light whereas an Aethos is literally half the weight of a Ti disc frame and could possibly check all those boxes.

[fredd]

Not what OP is asking for, but I'd say the simplest solution would be getting some less rigid shoes. I know the thought of it is scary as road riders, but you'll probably lose very little if any efficiency, and gain a lot of comfort in the feet.

[marciero]

As a test, you might decrease tire pressure a little-not permanently but just as a check. That will make much more of a difference than frame material, even a few pounds on a 25mm tire. If pain does not go away then frame material will not fix and suggests there may be something else going on. My guess is that that is the case. I'm not sure that a less rigid shoe would address it. It could, or could make it worse. I'd advocate stiff soles with proper, perhaps custom footbed.

[Elefantino]

Get some gel insoles and a Look 585, not necessarily in that order. I have numb feet and the insoles help tremendously with road vibration. The 585 takes care of the rest.

[parallelfish]

Originally Posted by Elefantino

Get some gel insoles and a Look 585, not necessarily in that order. I have numb feet and the insoles help tremendously with road vibration. The 585 takes care of the rest.

I second this - the 585 a comfortable ride.

[RyanH]

Originally Posted by fredd

Not what OP is asking for, but I'd say the simplest solution would be getting some less rigid shoes. I know the thought of it is scary as road riders, but you'll probably lose very little if any efficiency, and gain a lot of comfort in the feet.

I tested this on my ride today:





I forgot that I tend to bring out the Bonts for hard rides and my other shoes for every day so I did a back to back comparison trying to hit this:



The Bonts definitely transmit more vibration to the feet. I don't have definitive feedback on if it's the difference between the two bikes as the Crux is with a friend. With that being said, I was planning on doing my last Saturday ride again on the Litespeed this Saturday so I'll make sure to wear the same shoes (Bonts). The last few long, hard rides I've done on the Crux ended with me being the most uncomfortable on a bike I can remember. I don't have enough data points to know if this is just a fitness issue (shouldn't be since my volume has been much higher than the rest of the year over the last 3 months) or a bike issue (or even a shoe issue I guess).

@Clean39T I must have missed Hampsten's post, what is his username?

[NHAero]

Obviously this is caused by wearing shorts. I wear far more clothing and have no issues

Originally Posted by RyanH

I tested this on my ride today:





I forgot that I tend to bring out the Bonts for hard rides and my other shoes for every day so I did a back to back comparison trying to hit this:



The Bonts definitely transmit more vibration to the feet. I don't have definitive feedback on if it's the difference between the two bikes as the Crux is with a friend. With that being said, I was planning on doing my last Saturday ride again on the Litespeed this Saturday so I'll make sure to wear the same shoes (Bonts). The last few long, hard rides I've done on the Crux ended with me being the most uncomfortable on a bike I can remember. I don't have enough data points to know if this is just a fitness issue (shouldn't be since my volume has been much higher than the rest of the year over the last 3 months) or a bike issue (or even a shoe issue I guess).

@Clean39T I must have missed Hampsten's post, what is his username?

[cgolvin]

Originally Posted by RyanH

@Clean39T I must have missed Hampsten's post, what is his username?

I'm not Clean39T, don't even have a 39T, but the answer is @hampco.
His post is here.

[Clean39T]

Originally Posted by cgolvin

I....don't even have a 39T,..

Neither do I --

[cgolvin]

Originally Posted by Clean39T

Neither do I --

I know, but I've given up trying to convince you that your handle ought to reflect that

[RyanH]

Originally Posted by fredd

Not what OP is asking for, but I'd say the simplest solution would be getting some less rigid shoes. I know the thought of it is scary as road riders, but you'll probably lose very little if any efficiency, and gain a lot of comfort in the feet.

So, tested this yesterday on the Litespeed and the Bonts definitely transmitted more road buzz to the pedals. I had to do a short ride today since it was raining but used the Crux over the same surface and my other shoes didn't transmit the vibrations noticeably to the feet.

I'm going to still do a long hard ride on Saturday on the Litespeed with the Bonts to further validate the idea (I'll need to do the same with the Crux and the other shoes) but I think you may be right.

If that's the case, then this Crux is a carbon bike that rides like a metal bike (or at least my idea of how a Ti bike should ride)

[Clean39T]

Originally Posted by RyanH

So, tested this yesterday on the Litespeed and the Bonts definitely transmitted more road buzz to the pedals. I had to do a short ride today since it was raining but used the Crux over the same surface and my other shoes didn't transmit the vibrations noticeably to the feet.

I'm going to still do a long hard ride on Saturday on the Litespeed with the Bonts to further validate the idea (I'll need to do the same with the Crux and the other shoes) but I think you may be right.

If that's the case, then this Crux is a carbon bike that rides like a metal bike (or at least my idea of how a Ti bike should ride)

[RyanH]

That's a fair point. I'm running Bont Vaypors which are thin carbon and my insoles are fairly rigid. I feel it most in the front of the foot so I don't know if a less rigid shoe would help BUT a better insole would probably. Any suggestions?

[Kirk007]

I think the Aethos was the closest I've come to a metal bike feel (probably would have kept it if the aesthetics required to make it fit were better). I don't notice my feet taking a beating so I'm probably not the best respondent to your question other than to say that almost everytime I buy a carbon bike it doesn't stick around long and I keep acquiring lovely smooth and lively steel bikes. I also remember describing a Calfee (over 10 years ago) as riding like a nice steel bike only lighter, and a C50 I had also had a lovely ride to it.

[mtechnica]

I know what you're talking about and the closest I've come to a carbon bike that feels like a metal bike was my old calfee tetra pro. One of the old ones with the Italian BB. I put on a threadless 1" carbon fork. By a lot of peoples standards it would be considered noodly but it still felt efficient when climbing and you could put good power through it without it feeling like it was going to waste. Probably a lot of the magic was the small diameter tubes. This frame however was nowhere near as light as a lot of new stuff, but with the right build I'm sure you could get a tetra pro down to a competitive weight.

I did sell it though because I found other bikes suit my riding style better (often aggressive) and I generally don't have comfort issues on any carbon frames so the smoothness was kind of redundant.

As far as the crux I haven't ridden one but I'm 100% sure you can find a road bike that rides smoother. The carbon gravel bikes all seem pretty stiff, I think they kind of have to be to not fold under big guys using them as a MTB. Even my Hakka MX is stiff and it's "old" now - although I did find it comfortable when I had the 32mm GP5000 on it.

Last comment is have you considered that you may be able to go faster and feel better on a heavier bike?