On Park Tools and “Limited Lifetime Warranties”

[johnnylarue]

I just had a somewhat disappointing experience with Park Tools customer service and figured I would vent on the interwebs about it a little. (Full disclosure: I went into this with low expectations but a certain amount of guarded optimism.)

My trusty old PRS-21 repair stand hadn’t been used in several months. It was left standing up in a dusty corner, following a light bike cleaning several months ago. Suffice to say, “trusty” became “rusty” and the vertical tube has seized up on me. I do plan on shooting as much PB Blaster into it as it will accept and letting it sit for a while, but in the meantime I thought I’d contact Park to see if they had any suggestions for me.

They replied quickly and courteously, informing me that their Limited Lifetime Warranty didn’t cover damage due to “neglect”, and besides, they don’t have the replacement parts available for this stand anymore.

Their first point can be argued either way. On my side, there were no external signs of rust on the stand, and no indication in the owners manual that it should be disassembled and greased regularly, esp. after being exposed to water. The tolerances around the tube seemed tight enough to keep water out so I just dried it with a towel and never thought twice about it. As far as I was concerned, I was using the stand “correctly”.

Moreover, I was able to find instances from other owners who’d had these parts replaced under warranty for exactly the same issue, and Park themselves switched over to corrosion-resistant materials for the PRS-22 after discontinuing the previous model, a tacit admission of this stand’s fatal flaw. And it bears mentioning that nowhere in their warranty details is it stated that the warranty is “subject to parts availability” or anything to that effect.

Now, if it were *my* company and I were generous (read: foolish) enough to offer a lifetime warranty on my products, and I ran out of replacement parts for a badly designed older product, my guilty French Catholic conscience would morally oblige me to offer my customer some form compensation or token gesture of goodwill—say a small discount on a new stand or whatever. But Park Tools were content to send me off with a bit of advice (“maybe get a friend to help you unseize it”) and a friendly sign off, “Ride safe.”

I wasn’t expecting any miracles given that my stand is about 10 years old, but I can’t help but feel a bit let down all the same. That “Limited Lifetime Warranty” is a huge selling point for them, and certainly influenced my decision to buy their product.

So what do you think: should a lifetime warranty only be valid for as long as it’s convenient for a company to fulfill it?

Anyway, it’s not my intention to trash Park Tools, but I would kindly suggest to not let their warranty sway you in your future buying decisions. I’d much rather have had a 3-year warranty on a stand that didn’t break than a lifetime warranty on a stand that can’t practically be repaired due to a lack of parts availability.

[charliedid]

Sorry for your troubles but based on the knowledge I have I am with Park on this one.

Sounds like you know this isn't a defect in manufacturing and were expecting Park to tell yo so. They did and now you are not happy.

That said I think you should be able to make this good again and work for you.

My 2 cents.

[FNG]

there website shows that part replaceable. it also says its aluminum. how'd it get stuck?

https://www.parktool.com/parts?query=prs-21

[tomato coupe]

Originally Posted by johnnylarue

So what do you think: should a lifetime warranty only be valid for as long as it’s convenient for a company to fulfill it?

Do you think bike manufacturers should replace rusty chains during the warranty period?

[pncguy]

I completely understand the disappointment, but my response would be "oh well."

OTOH, I recently decided an old Blackburn pump of mine needed a new o-ring, so I called to inquire. They said "oh, we don't make that part or support that pump anymore. What is your address?"

And they sent me a brand new pump.

I like Blackburn even more than I did before.

[vqdriver]

Originally Posted by charliedid

Sorry for your troubles but based on the knowledge I have I am with Park on this one.

Sounds like you know this isn't a defect in manufacturing and were expecting Park to tell yo so. They did and now you are not happy.

That said I think you should be able to make this good again and work for you.

My 2 cents.

That's where I'm landing too. After ten years I'd probably buy another park stand tbh

[johnnylarue]

Originally Posted by charliedid

Sorry for your troubles but based on the knowledge I have I am with Park on this one.

Sounds like you know this isn't a defect in manufacturing and were expecting Park to tell yo so. They did and now you are not happy.

That said I think you should be able to make this good again and work for you.

My 2 cents.

Thanks—I’m hopeful I’ll get it unstuck with a bit of patience and penetrating oil...

As for the rest, a manufacturing defect? No.

Design defect? Possibly.

Failure to adequately caution users about a critical component’s vulnerability to water? I would say yes. Greasing that tube is common sense in hindsight, but it sure looked painted and rust-protected to me until I found out it wasn’t.

Originally Posted by FNG

there website shows that part replaceable. it also says its aluminum. how'd it get stuck?

https://www.parktool.com/parts?query=prs-21

Is it possible there were two versions of this stand? Mine feels too heavy to be aluminum. Regardless, Al can fuse itself to steel as well. (Ask the seat post in my dear departed hot pink Zunow frame...)

Originally Posted by tomato coupe

Do you think bike manufacturers should replace rusty chains during the warranty period?

Good question. Would you expect a drinking glass manufacturer to offer a lifetime warranty on glasses made from untreated iron? “Sorry, sir, but you weren’t supposed to put water in that glass. That’s why it rusted.”

Bike stands typically see a lot of water. Generally, you would think this fact would be incorporated into a stand’s design, and if not, that the manufacturer would clearly inform consumers of the proper way to care for the stand if it’s being used to wash bikes. It’s such an easy thing to incorporate into a one-page user manual, and would have saved a great number of headaches.

For the record, they ran out of replacement parts. Why? Because this happened to a bazillion other people who bought this stand. They sold us a flawed product and honoured their “lifetime warranty” while supplies lasted. Which just makes me wish my bike stand had rusted six years ago.

In any case, the takeaway for me is that lifetime warranties are meaningless without a manufacturer’s willingness to honour them in good faith “for a lifetime”.

[charliedid]

Loud and clear.

My Feedback got all jammed up and took me some work to get it all working again. I've been hitting it all with spray silicone since and it seems to do the trick.

Good luck.

[tomato coupe]

This thread is an example of why I'm so happy my company does not sell consumer-level products.

[weisan]

Originally Posted by johnnylarue

Bike stands typically see a lot of water.

I wouldn't use my $200+ Feedback Sports stand to hold my bike while I hose it down with water. No way!

And if I do, common sense tells me that water will find its way into the nooks and crannies and it will rust. That's on me.

[johnnylarue]

Originally Posted by pncguy

I completely understand the disappointment, but my response would be "oh well."

OTOH, I recently decided an old Blackburn pump of mine needed a new o-ring, so I called to inquire. They said "oh, we don't make that part or support that pump anymore. What is your address?"

And they sent me a brand new pump.

I like Blackburn even more than I did before.

Absolutely. I guess I was slightly more than “oh well”-grade miffed or I wouldn’t be crying on the internet about this, but it’s prior experiences like yours with Blackburn that made my interaction with Park seem kinda underwhelming. I was expecting a bit more pampering from such a well-reputed (and relatively HUGE) brand, and I mean, they didn’t even try to pacify me with a free lollipop or a sticker or anything!?

Poor baby Johnny...

[charliedid]

Originally Posted by weisan

I wouldn't use my $200+ Feedback Sports stand to hold my bike while I hose it down with water. No way!

And if I do, common sense tells me that water will find its way into the nooks and crannies and it will rust. That's on me.

Why?

I spray my $5000 bikes with water

[johnnylarue]

Originally Posted by tomato coupe

This thread is an example of why I'm so happy my company does not sell consumer-level products.

I hear ya. Being able to take for granted that the people buying your products actually know how to use them must be an enormous relief.

[johnnylarue]

Originally Posted by weisan

I wouldn't use my $200+ Feedback Sports stand to hold my bike while I hose it down with water. No way!

And if I do, common sense tells me that water will find its way into the nooks and crannies and it will rust. That's on me.

Very sensible. But cleaning a bike with water on a repair stand is a very common practice. And the fact that Park redesigned their stands after dealing with this recurring problem for a number of years means they implicitly accepted part of the blame.

I rode steel bikes in the rain for 30 years and never once considered that I should remove the stem and headset to dry and re-grease the head tube. Just saying...

[chicagorider]

I think Part Tools could have been nicer about it but at the same time, I think they didn't need to be. So I guess it's up to their company values when it comes to these things...

Originally Posted by charliedid

My Feedback got all jammed up and took me some work to get it all working again. I've been hitting it all with spray silicone since and it seems to do the trick.

The silicone is to prevent rust right (rather than to get things unstuck)? I've been a little concerned when I was washing my bike as it was on my Feedback stand. I wipe it (and the bike!) down afterwards but I'm aware that I can't get all the moisture out...