Levers & Cable Pull for Centerpull brakes

[Turkle]

Hi, all. For centerpull brakes like Paul or Rene Herse, do you need to know anything about your brake levers? Will any roadie "brifter" lever (Shimano, Campy, etc.) be able to operate them? Or are some roadie brake systems incompatible with something like a centerpull brake? I thought they were all "short" brake lever pull, but I read a thread and now I'm not sure...

Thanks!

[Mark McM]

The leverage of most centerpull brakes is similar to sidepull calipers, so in general centerpull brakes work well with most road brake levers designed for sidepull calipers. The exception is road brake levers that have been optimized for direct mount brakes - because direct mount brakes have very high leverage ratios (about 2:1), the levers for these brakes has sometimes been lowered to compensate.

[Turkle]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

The leverage of most centerpull brakes is similar to sidepull calipers, so in general centerpull brakes work well with most road brake levers designed for sidepull calipers. The exception is road brake levers that have been optimized for direct mount brakes - because direct mount brakes have very high leverage ratios (about 2:1), the levers for these brakes has sometimes been lowered to compensate.

Thank you, this is helpful.

[rccardr]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

The leverage of most centerpull brakes is similar to sidepull calipers, so in general centerpull brakes work well with most road brake levers designed for sidepull calipers. The exception is road brake levers that have been optimized for direct mount brakes - because direct mount brakes have very high leverage ratios (about 2:1), the levers for these brakes has sometimes been lowered to compensate.

I would say this is true with regard to MODERN levers. Not so for vintage stuff. Centerpull brakes with older non aero levers def not as effective as when used with later non aero levers.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by rccardr

I would say this is true with regard to MODERN levers. Not so for vintage stuff. Centerpull brakes with older non aero levers def not as effective as when used with later non aero levers.

The issues of modern vs. vintage levers has nothing to do with the type of brake caliper used. Vintage levers work just as well as modern levers when used from the drops - the difference is when the brakes are squeezed with hands on the hoods. When levers were modified for (modern) aero cable routing, the lever pivot point needed to be moved. By serendipity, this change in pivot point made them work better when the hands were on the hoods. The change in effectiveness from the hoods affected all types of calipers (sidepull, centerpull, etc.) the same.

[LeMond123]

As a data point I’m running an old Dura Ace Centerpull with 8s Record Ergos and it stops very well. Put some Koop Stop shoes and pads in there.

[El Chaba]

Another data point...Campagnolo Ergopower levers work very well with Mafac centerpulls. As noted, if you go this route, update the pads with Koolstops as the pads harden with age and the newest ones are pushing 40 years old at this point. Specifically, the setup to which I am referring uses Record 9 speed era levers with Mafac 2000 brakes, Koolstop salmon pads.

[weisan]

Give Henry and Omar pal a listen

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TOn7V9x0rE4&t=1418s

[bicycletricycle]

I have used these combinations-

Paul racers-
Campy C record aero levers, Campy 10, pre 2014 campy 11, shimano tiara aero, short pull Paul levers. All of these worked pretty well, I think the shorter pull of the bunch felt a little better.

Paul racer mediums-
Campy 10 levers. works great

Racers/gran Bois 36/42-
Campy 10, shimano tiagra aero. Both work great.

[Dave]

In a thread discussing mechanical disc calipers, one knowledgeable person posted that shimano made a major change in the pivot length from 18mm to 36mm at some point, while Campy and SRAM levers are about 24mm. I've used current Campy and SRAM levers on Campy rim brakes and didn't notice any difference.

That would make current shimano levers have more cable pull, but less mechanical advantage.

[dddd]

Another thing that can affect leverage about as much as whether the levers are "new Shimano" or old would be where in the slots that the brake pad studs are positioned.
I have a 1970's Centurion Pro Tour where the centerpull caliper's brazed-on posts position the pivots on the low side, so the brake pads are high in their slots.
The resulting leverage is very high, the brakes require extremely low effort even with the 45-year-old DiaCompe pads!

The newer Shimano levers having a longer cable travel are identifiable by the head of the cable being way up at the front of the lever (instead of buried and with the swivel barrel). The new levers make cable replacement simpler imo, and it looks like it saves some weight in hardware.

[El Chaba]

Another thing to consider re centerpulls with modern levers ( or any other levers, really) Centerpulls came with different reaches just as side pulls did/do. In descending order of mechanical advantage, the Mafac lineup looked like this: Mafac GT/ Competition; Mafac Racer/ 2000; Mafac Raid. The Rene Herse Brakes are patterned after the Mafac Raid and the Paul’s are in the same ballpark. Using brazed on pivots, all of these brakes have significantly more clearance than when using a stirrup with a center bolt. Depending on your maximum required tire width, you may be able to drop a caliper size and still have plenty of clearance. The reward will be a noticeable step up in mechanical advantage. As a data point, on my Meral camping bike, I am using brazed on Mafac 2000 brakes. I have plenty of clearance for 32 mm tires ( the maximum I intend to use on it ) with Honjo metal fenders.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by Dave

In a thread discussing mechanical disc calipers, one knowledgeable person posted that shimano made a major change in the pivot length from 18mm to 36mm at some point, while Campy and SRAM levers are about 24mm. I've used current Campy and SRAM levers on Campy rim brakes and didn't notice any difference.

That would make current shimano levers have more cable pull, but less mechanical advantage.

I suspect this applies only to Shimano 105 and above. The brake calipers for 105 and above are now either direct mount, or have the same pivot locations as direct mount, which increases the caliper mechanical advantage substantially. So it would make sense to decrease the mechanical advantage of the levers to compensate.

A fringe benefit is that it also makes these levers a better match to direct pull type brakes (i.e. "V-brakes"), which also have a very high mechanical advantage.

[choke]

I've used Racer M brakes with Campy 10 Ergos and Campy C-Record levers....both worked fine.

[Turkle]

Just wanted to say thanks everyone, this info was all really helpful. Cheers