OT - renters guarantor agreements

[doomridesout]

I’m a California lawyer dealing with real property, torts and indemnity issues. Feel free to get in touch.

[ScottW]

Originally Posted by Spaghetti Legs

... jointly liable with all the other renters...

<snip>

...The cynic in me is picturing some other kid’s bong setting the building on fire and now I’m in a lawsuit for the value of an LA apartment building.

IANAL but the language seems to suggest you'd be liable if the fire was started by a joint, but probably not if it was started by a bong.

[CNY rider]

Originally Posted by HenryA

Beyond that, 10 college boys living in one house - the chance of nothing happening is zero.

Exactly! What could possibly go wrong?

[glepore]

Originally Posted by C40_guy

Lawyers go after the deep pockets. The kids don't have them. You do.

My daughter is a renter in the high rent corner of Connecticut. When she was arranging car insurance, I asked what would happen if she had a fender bender with one of the typical $150K+ cars cruising the streets of Greenwich, etc.

The answer from the USAA rep inspired her to add on supplemental insurance, an umbrella policy...

lawyer in recovery here. Joint and several means that they can go after a single parent with assets for the whole f'in problem. Given what I know about the op, might be a bad deal for him...but then again, what leverage do you have? Call your insurance agent and make sure your plup covers your guarantee.

[HenryA]

Buying a 2 bedroom condo and putting your son and another boy in it for 4 years might be worth a look. When its over, sell it.

[vqdriver]

this is pretty much it. in california, it's very one-sided towards renters so landlords essentially have to counter with very one-sided agreements to have any semblance of recourse if/when things go wrong. even still, it's not uncommon for owners to be left holding the bag. add to that the current housing market in LA, and in westwood no less.

in the best case, nothing of note happens and they all make it thru the year with just a messy home, maybe an extra hole or two in the wall.

in the worst case, everyone hates each other and half are gonzo before the the landlord tries to evict the remaining roommates. no way in hell is the landlord going to sift thru the interpersonal relationships of 10 renters and their 20 parents. F that.


it's seems like a scary scenario but just keep in mind that (especially at a school the size of ucla) thousands of students live and leave these places every single year without anything more dramatic than stains and smells.

Originally Posted by Michael Maddox

I'm a full-time landlord and happen to live in a college town.

The problem is that the KIDS are extremely mobile, with unproven credit and rental histories. If they're MALE, then it's even worse...the damage and filth left by a pack of 19-20 something boys is absolutely mind-blowing. As a landlord, I KNOW these university students are likely to make a mess, start hating each other before the term of the lease is out, then try to scurry away, leaving one or two holding the bag. This happens ALL THE TIME.

I am NOT in business to coddle your little darling on their first big adventure off at university. I am in it solely to make a return on my investment. The students in the apartments don't have the money to make up for the loss because of damage, unpaid rents, or pretty much ANYTHING. Thus, I'm not going to rent to the students, I'm going to rent the apartment to YOU, the parent.

It's common EVERYWHERE. If you don't want to play, you simply don't get to rent my property. So, do your homework and decide if the roommates AND their respective co-signors are people you really want to get in bed with. It CAN end up being a very expensive and very short bad relationship.

I've been speaking hypothetically, so don't take offense. I got out of student rentals YEARS ago. I do mid-level homes to new families, divorcees, and retirees, mostly...people on their way to home ownership or on their way OUT of home ownership. I have been around the block with students, though...and after a couple of years, you quickly understand the ruthless reputations that many student apartment businesses get. They are generally FORCED to be that way, simply to survive. Simply put...college-age boys are GENERALLY horrible.

[54ny77]

Who's got the leverage here, meaning, is it a renters or landlord market? You'll need to weigh the urgency of getting your child a place to live vs. market conditions.

And if something goes wrong in future (assuming you grab your ankles and take the lease as-is and no changes), you'll have to weigh the cost-benefit of lawyering up on a lease violation, i.e., spending $5k to save $2k if counsel says certain provisions of lease aren't enforceable.

Long story short, to answer your question of joint & several, you're responsible for EVERYTHING (as forum member Maddox pointed out).

Important thing to find out is if, since it's a college town, the city/township/whatever it is has any sort of zoning-specific series of escalating violations due to police being called for a disturbance. If so, that gets expensive really fast. And, adding to the fun, the lease may call for a pass-thru of such things to the lessee (or in your case, guarantor) since the violation might be assessed against the property owner (not the tenant). Also find out (by asking landlord) if the HOA (assuming it's a condo) has any fine schedule for similar quality of life violations.

Don't mean to be a debbie downer...but you and the parents of other tenants need to all be on the same page and I'd suggest a call amongst yourselves to fully understand the risk. Things can get ugly, pronto, if one kid turns out to be the bad kid and leaves the others (incl. parents) holding the bag.

[C40_guy]

Originally Posted by 54ny77

Things can get ugly, pronto, if one kid turns out to be the bad kid and leaves the others (incl. parents) holding the bag.

Right. And with 10 young adults cohabiting in one place, the likelihood of that happening is pretty good.

If it were my kid, I'd say, "pick one or two upstanding young adults out of the mob and find a place for the two or three of you." Lower risk, easier to manage, less chance of major meltdown by the crowd or one outlier...

[Spaghetti Legs]

Thanks for the input everyone. I’ve gotten some good info and things to think about here. I’m generally optimistic about the situation though.

Definitely different times now than I experienced at that age. I lived in a couple of different off campus houses in college and don’t remember getting my parents involved. When my soon to be wife and I moved back East from California in the mid 90’s, homeless and unemployed, we found an apartment in Arlington, VA and the landlord told us to “go ahead and move in, we’ll get the lease sorted out later”!