Wax vs "oil based" lubricants and use applications

[pdonk]

Long time boeshield user. Its ok, but needs to dry well or collects grime.

Getting ready to switch to super secret when I do my spring tear downs and rebuilds as silca says it needs a super vlean chain. Likely going to do a waxing first.

[charliedid]

Originally Posted by zennmotion

I used to get that wet lube experience from chain saw bar lube thinned with a little OMS- did it for years and I thought the mess went along with the quiet. I stopped that messy nonsense and I've been on NFS for several years now, first the regular that came as a sample with my custom frame, then the odorless plus version that was a little lighter, now with the blue devil heavier version that's made for offroad and mud (wish I had it during my CX racing days when I used to spray my drivetrain with cooking spray over the lube to shed the mud, it worked but what a mess!), and I've just received new Beta version of the discontinued ne plus ultra (that's not yet for sale) and, a couple of hundred miles, I really like it as both lighter and even cleaner than the original. Sorry guys but waxing chains strikes me as a little OCD and precious-- insert eyeroll here.

Pretty sure the NFS I have is of the original flavor.

The SILCA doesn't seem to leave a heavy mess but as stated I just applied so we will see. I'n good about keeping things tidy which is half the battle and I don't over use product. I wonder if the Blue Devil version of NFS is somehow similar to the SILCA? The original always seems light to me and I never adopted the 12 drop rule so I guess I'm going straight to hell.

Bike lube.

[Dave]

Applying 12 drops of lube to a chain with over 100 pins and rollers is ridiculous. To prevent elongation, the lube must reach the pin and inner plate interface, where the elongation creating wear occurs. Wear on the hole in the roller is also many times greater than wear on the OD of roller. Extreme amounts of roller wear will also cause new-chain skip, even without excessive elongation.

I apply one drop of my home made liquid wax lube to every roller, to lube the roller and pin.

[charliedid]

Originally Posted by Dave

Applying 12 drops of lube to a chain with over 100 pins and rollers is ridiculous. To prevent elongation, the lube must reach the pin and inner plate interface, where the elongation creating wear occurs. Wear on the hole in the roller is also many times greater than wear on the OD of roller. Extreme amounts of roller wear will also cause new-chain skip, even without excessive elongation.

I apply one drop of my home made liquid wax lube to every roller, to lube the roller and pin.

I don't claim to own the knowledge necessary to dispute the 12 drop method I just never felt as though it was working for me. Again, chains with NFS remained rather clean which seems to be one of the major attractions and selling points. I'm not dismissing it and may certainly still use it as I see fit and useful.

[jimoots]

They changed the directions from the 12 drop thing to one drop per link on first application and then from there using a 12 drop method from then on.

[zennmotion]

Originally Posted by Dave

Applying 12 drops of lube to a chain with over 100 pins and rollers is ridiculous. To prevent elongation, the lube must reach the pin and inner plate interface, where the elongation creating wear occurs. Wear on the hole in the roller is also many times greater than wear on the OD of roller. Extreme amounts of roller wear will also cause new-chain skip, even without excessive elongation.

And yet, it works! I admit to my own initial skepticism on this point but I've been doing the 12 drop thing after a leap of faith and trusting a guy who has much more knowledge on the engineering than your average shop wrench. Over 5+ years of using the stuff I can assure you that my chains don't skip, or make noise or get excessively dirty, with great chain longevity, getting at least 2K miles out of a chain, including my travel/gravel bike that sees most of its mileage in mud and sand here and abroad. Certainly much better performance than any wax-based lube I've tried (Pedro's was among the best of these, White Lightening the worst). With previous wet lubes, they were fine when clean or at least clean-ish. However, I experienced problems not when the chain was "dry" but when the lubed caked up with dirt and affected shifting including chain drop. They became grinding compounds in sand and washed off in mud. NFS works in both conditions quite well. I thought paraffin was great too, but that nonsense stopped in the early 80s when my mother was asking about her missing 1qt pot and I realized my chains quickly became stiff, squeaky AND dirty, perfect trifecta... I used triflow and later chain saw lube for a long time, done with all that, life's too short and the key to happiness is good lube for all aspects of life

[zennmotion]

Originally Posted by jimmy-moots

They changed the directions from the 12 drop thing to one drop per link on first application and then from there using a 12 drop method from then on.

I didn't get the memo. I don't clean a new chain before adding NFS (too lazy!), I let the factory lube get broken down then I just clean the chain with dish detergent after a few hundred miles, then apply 12-15 drops to the clean chain and wipe off the side plates and reapply a few (few!) drops. I'll clean again with dish liquid after a very muddy ride or if there is noticeable gunk building up (which is rare unless I applied too much in the first place!) Too much lube causes problems. Most lubes require much more generous applications than NFS, 12 drops is plenty even to a new chain. Seriously, people complaining about the performance after they say they applied way more than recommended seems kinda weird- NFS is gonna get dirty with overapplication... and regularly removing chains (and replacing quicklinks, or not) in order to do a clean and wax beauty routine seems even weirder

[charliedid]

Originally Posted by zennmotion

I didn't get the memo. I don't clean a new chain before adding NFS (too lazy!), I let the factory lube get broken down then I just clean it with dish detergent after a few hundred miles, apply 12-15 drops to the clean chain and wipe off the side plates and reapply a few (few!) drops. I'll clean again with dish liquid after a muddy ride or if there is noticeable gunk building up (which is rare unless I applied too much in the first place!) Too much lube causes problems. Most lubes require much more generous applications than NFS, 12 drops is plenty. Seriously, people complaining about the performance after they say they applied way more than recommended seems kinda weird... and regularly removing chains (and replacing quicklinks, or not) in order to clean and wax seems even weirder

Seriously nobody is complaining just talking.

[zennmotion]

Originally Posted by charliedid

Seriously nobody is complaining just talking.

No but their drivetrains are complaining! I can't sleep at night, at first I thought it was worry about baby seals, but I now realize it was bike chains existing in abject misery, and feeling their pain!

[joosttx]

smooth....

[charliedid]

Originally Posted by zennmotion

No but their drivetrains are complaining! I can't sleep at night, at first I thought it was worry about baby seals, but I now realize it was bike chains existing in abject misery, and feeling their pain!

I'm going belt drive...

[LeMond123]

Interested in wax, but got a bottle or two of this lying around to use up first. Seems to do a good job, but need to get the factory stuff off, at least mostly, before or you just end up with some gunk. Once applied well to a pretty clean chain, I've had good luck getting really quiet and long lasting applications. Mostly in dry, sometimes dusty conditions here in Colorado.

https://www.dumondetech.com/portfolio/pro-x-lite/

[zennmotion]

Originally Posted by charliedid

I'm going belt drive...

Dog bless you!

[jimoots]

Originally Posted by zennmotion

I didn't get the memo. I don't clean a new chain before adding NFS (too lazy!), I let the factory lube get broken down then I just clean the chain with dish detergent after a few hundred miles, then apply 12-15 drops to the clean chain and wipe off the side plates and reapply a few (few!) drops. I'll clean again with dish liquid after a very muddy ride or if there is noticeable gunk building up (which is rare unless I applied too much in the first place!) Too much lube causes problems. Most lubes require much more generous applications than NFS, 12 drops is plenty even to a new chain. Seriously, people complaining about the performance after they say they applied way more than recommended seems kinda weird- NFS is gonna get dirty with overapplication... and regularly removing chains (and replacing quicklinks, or not) in order to do a clean and wax beauty routine seems even weirder

I personally found 12 drops on a properly cleaned chain was a little too dry, it was only randomly when reading one of the exhaustively long ZFC docs that I found some notes about how NFS had changed their instruction around the lube.

One drop per link feels like way too much but if you do that then wipe the excess with a rag it seems to perform really well.

If you are applying on top of a factory lube its probably going to be fine, I don't think you'll get the full benefit of NFS' ability to repel crap but neither of us are Adam Kerin so I doubt we'll notice.

Long story short, 12 drops on a dry chain isn't enough to penetrate everything, which is where I think people run into issues. You def need to wipe the excess off (because there will be a lot) but I figured that'd be assumed.

[Applesauce]

Originally Posted by joosttx

smooth....

I’m a hot wax man myself, too. The bees’ knees, though I don’t use beeswax.