Giro/Camelbak and others owned by ammunition manufacturer.

[ftf]

Originally Posted by William

All I'm going to say is apples and oranges when you compare all the stats. But I'm going to leave it at that so this thread doesn't go any further than where it is already skirting.






William

We don't know that, there aren't any stats from the US for about 20 years as it is illegal to study it.

[ptourkin]

Originally Posted by William

I'm not going to say that some companies don't support the NRA because some do. But most of the money going into the NRA are from everyday law abiding citizens who support the 2A. That being said there are many like yourself who don't feel that the NRA with its current leadership have the best interest of the supporting members and have been moving to the GOA. And you are also correct that the NRA is just one of multitudes of lobbying entities all pushing the agenda's they believe important.







William

Without getting into a lock environment:

1) Federal and Savage and some of the other VO companies are very active supporters of the political arm of the NRA and have tweeted support and retweeted inflammatory NRA TV posts. NRA TV has gone well beyond 2A advocacy and engages in political speech on other issues.

2) The sources of the money used for political action have become nebulous. While it is true that they are extremely successful at raising money from individual donors. the spending in 2016 included large amounts of money from corporate donors that they are not required to disclose. This is coming from the manufacturers and it has been alleged that some of it is laundered international funds from you know where. I am not speaking to the truth of that allegation as I don't know but this kind of spending is not transparent and the budget is huge.

3) While it is true that the NRA is only one of many groups who lobby, there are only a few industry groups that match their impact, which is largely partisan. Also, while other manufacturing groups also lobby, there are few who represent so few current manufacturers and employees.

Some people support their level of influence, some don't, but the information gives us an element of choice.

[BikeNY]

Originally Posted by William

A lot of companies find money to be very important...hence the lobbying.

William

A lot of companies also don't give a crap about ethics, society, the environment, etc....

[jemoryl]

Originally Posted by William

A lot of companies find money to be very important...hence the lobbying.






William

Lobbying was generally regarded as corruption in the early days of the Republic. See Zephyr Teachout's interesting book Corruption In America.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by Clancy

Posting this here for conversation, popped up on classifieds.

Not sure how to process this info. Particularly comments made by CEO

Conflicted feelings

https://bikeportland.org/2018/02/21/...ackburn-268969

Thanks for the info. Important to know.

Obviously this will have no effect on me personally, but it can't hurt to throw my hat in for positive change. My sister lives in the U.S., and I have numerous American friends I got to know living overseas. The insane American gun culture is just...it's just bat$hit crazy, and it's patently obvious to anyone not in the right-wing rabbit hole and/or outside of the U.S. that it's abso-phracking-lutely cuckoo on stilts, but, well...

Best of luck on getting some long-overdue change on this.

[Vientomas]

Exercise your rights...Vote with your wallet.

[Rpoole8537]

I think it was Robin Williams who said, politicians should wear uniforms like NASCAR drivers, so we would know who they work for. Lobbying would not be an issue if the politicians did not take the money. If we had term limits they would not need to take the money. Term limits would solve a lot of our dysfunction in DC.
FDR lost most of his family fortune and lost his life serving as our president. I guess he thought it was the right thing to do.

[Bruce K]

I understand the sentiment and, other than Blackburn use none of VO’s cycling related stuff.

I had heard they were in the process of selling off some of the cycling businesses due to poor performance.

If the boycott works as intended could VO just say “screw it” and close up their US sectors/businesses? Could they cut ties to cycling teams/events/sponsorships? What will be the impact to the industry/sport/jobs/etc be?

Savage is one of the most popular brands for hunters and youth target programs and by all accounts is doing well. Federal is a major supplier to LE and the military. Camelback supplies a significant amount of its business to LE and the military as well.

Again, just some thoughts as I’m not buying anything from VO owned entities any time soon.

BK

[tuscanyswe]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Thanks for the info. Important to know.

Obviously this will have no effect on me personally, but it can't hurt to throw my hat in for positive change. My sister lives in the U.S., and I have numerous American friends I got to know living overseas. The insane American gun culture is just...it's just bat$hit crazy, and it's patently obvious to anyone not in the right-wing rabbit hole and/or outside of the U.S. that it's abso-phracking-lutely cuckoo on stilts, but, well...

Best of luck on getting some long-overdue change on this.

This

[pjbaz]

Originally Posted by jemoryl

Things that are legal are not always ethical. And when one discovers facts about companies that are doing things that conflict with one's personal ethical and moral beliefs, we can act accordingly.

I agree, and if you reread my first sentence you may deduce that I support your right to do so, just as I have the right not to, except Giro helmets don't fit my head properly.

Just be careful how far down the rabbit hole you want to peer, otherwise you may find yourself without the ability to own anything not made by your hand and nature

[ftf]

Originally Posted by pjbaz

Just be careful how far down the rabbit hole you want to peer, otherwise you may find yourself without the ability to own anything not made by your hand and nature

Yeah we should just blindly accept our lot I guess? Consume with out thinking, buy buy buy!

[OtayBW]

Originally Posted by pjbaz

I agree, and if you reread my first sentence you may deduce that I support your right to do so, just as I have the right not to, except Giro helmets don't fit my head properly.

Just be careful how far down the rabbit hole you want to peer, otherwise you may find yourself without the ability to own anything not made by your hand and nature

The only way to live out the full consciousness of your convictions is to become a monk (Thomas Merton). That said, I am not willing to (re)enter the monastery just yet, so that I/we have to choose our own battles. For example, I haven't spent more than $10.00 on Exxon gas since the Exxon Valdez incident, but I have no doubt that somewhere, some products I buy are tied to Exxon. My conviction to boycott Exxon - as I will now Giro - speaks louder to me internally than any caution I might have about peering too deeply into any rabbit hole....

[witcombusa]

Interesting comments.

I would not buy a Giro helmet simply because I do not wear one. But I would at least look at the products regarding ammo and firearms. So in my case there association with products I am interested in doesn't help them sell me a helmet.

But always buy or don't buy what you want for whatever reasons strike you.
As already said, money talks.

I do fail to see the problem here but that's just me.

[CunegoFan]

It must be a sad day for the perennially outraged virtue signalers to not find something to be outraged about.

[jlwdm]

I use Giro helmets and some Giro gloves. I have never owned or shot a gun. I will continue to use Giro products as I like what they make.

Jeff