Sram engineering + reliability strike again

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by simonov

Because they don't produce garbage. And Shimano has plenty of product issues of their own. There's so much disdain and hyperbole when in comes to SRAM and most of it is unfounded or based on groups that they no longer make. I personally think 1x is a silly choice for road bikes and downright stupid for pro-level racing. I also think that 3T Strada has stupid geometry that doesn't make sense from a fit standpoint or a parts compatibility standpoint. But the issue here is with a team that said yes to a bike sponsor that locked them into a poor gear selection with no alternative. I feel bad for the racers. To put in as much training and work as these guys do only to have to ride something that puts them at a disadvantage must be heartbreaking. Any other bike and they could toss on some Yaw FDs and a double chainring crank and put this issue to bed.

Sums it up..too bad we don't really know anymore than a guy chucked his chain, it hurt his results, the team and management aren't happy with the equipment and it's gonna be a long year for them..I'm still kinda mystified, after having the frames and groups for more than 5 months, these 'issues' haven't been sorted somehow by 3T and/or sram. Ya gotta believe that sram/3T has a team of mechs and truck full of spares to prevent the team from slamming their stuff. Yet..

[simonov]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Sums it up..too bad we don't really know anymore than a guy chucked his chain, it hurt his results, the team and management aren't happy with the equipment and it's gonna be a long year for them..I'm still kinda mystified, after having the frames and groups for more than 5 months, these 'issues' haven't been sorted somehow by 3T and/or sram. Ya gotta believe that sram/3T has a team of mechs and truck full of spares to prevent the team from slamming their stuff. Yet..

My guess is that they can't fix the issue without using a different frame, which isn't an option based on what 3T offers.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by simonov

My guess is that they can't fix the issue without using a different frame, which isn't an option based on what 3T offers.

Perhaps but that speaks to those who 'may' want this group for their road rig. I know all groups have certain frameset spec requirements....some gent in someplace USA wants a 1by group..may not want to risk it.

[Burnette]

As much as this thread comes off as an indictment of the 1X drivetrain and SRAM it's self if you read the article it pints the most probable cause:

"Dropping the chain can happen on a traditional drivetrain with a front derailleur, and Christian's mechanical could be down to a number of factors - low clutch tension, a slightly too-long chain, the lack of a chain guide and a number of other reasons could all be to fault.However, a rattling from the rear derailleur at the finish line suggests low clutch tension, or a failed clutch system, could have been the cause of the dropped chain and the reason Christian lost time"

As far as the lab rat comment, well yeah, racing is where component and frame makers learn.

Andy Schleck's dropped chain in the TDF stands out because, well, it was the tour and Contador profited form it but it happens with all brands in all tours. What makes this different is that the riders are on social media complaining about it.

Racing is a business so going forward the rides should bail if so inclined and other riders or another team will be contracted and life goes on.

[ptourkin]

Originally Posted by beeatnik

yabut, Paul, you put about 300 miles yearly on your sramz. the tragedy of owning 10 other bikes.

People with 11 bikes are so weird.

[colker]

Originally Posted by simonov

Because they don't produce garbage. And Shimano has plenty of product issues of their own. There's so much disdain and hyperbole when in comes to SRAM and most of it is unfounded or based on groups that they no longer make. I personally think 1x is a silly choice for road bikes and downright stupid for pro-level racing. I also think that 3T Strada has stupid geometry that doesn't make sense from a fit standpoint or a parts compatibility standpoint. But the issue here is with a team that said yes to a bike sponsor that locked them into a poor gear selection with no alternative. I feel bad for the racers. To put in as much training and work as these guys do only to have to ride something that puts them at a disadvantage must be heartbreaking. Any other bike and they could toss on some Yaw FDs and a double chainring crank and put this issue to bed.

That´s it. Crystal clear.

[unterhausen]

it would be funny if the rear derailleur was left with the clutch release pin engaged. Saw a Blue Angels show where they apparently left a pin in the landing gear, so that sort of thing happens.

[batman1425]

Originally Posted by simonov

My guess is that they can't fix the issue without using a different frame, which isn't an option based on what 3T offers.

Interesting to consider that if 3T or Sram come out saying that there is a compatibility problem of some kind, that essentially halts sales of the Strada. 3T painted themselves into a corner by making a bike that will essentially only work with one group which had not been extensively tested in this specific configuration. They certainly have skin in that game and Aqua Blue works with 3T in the retail space. The prime sponsors have something lose (beyond poor results and low ROI from lack of team success) if something got overlooked in the frame design phase and might be why there wasn't an immediate pivot to a different frame when problems came up. A case of - "figure it out because a change is going to hurt all of the sponsors".

OldPotato brought up a good point that they had 5mo of development time with the team to figure this out. The comments about there being lots of problems suggest there are known (to the team) problems but hey can't be fixed with out major component or frame changes. 3T absolutely doesn't want to have to change the frame to sort this out. Makes all of the current stock out there unsellable. Heck, even a run of one off parts from Sram that bandaids things well enough for the team to make due still renders the current Strada's unsellable unless Sram brings all that to market ASAP. Whatever the issue, I suspect 3T is gonna get a heck of a wallet punch from this.

They are still using Ridley TT bikes. A potential work around would be to bring in Helium's for a traditional and functional 2X "climbing" option and continue to use the Strada for 1x appropriate days - flat? Would give the team some different options and help everybody save face, but the window to do that gracefully has shut.

As was said before - the riders and staff are the biggest losers. I feel bad for those folks who work so hard just to have it all go up in smoke because of sponsor BS.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by unterhausen

it would be funny if the rear derailleur was left with the clutch release pin engaged. Saw a Blue Angels show where they apparently left a pin in the landing gear, so that sort of thing happens.

But that didn’t mean the landing gear failed and the pilot and CO didn’t then slam McDonnell-Douglas....

[El Chaba]

The problems with this 1x group and the 3TTT bike won't be worked out in 5 months or 6 or 5 years or an eternity. The reason is that R&D is not the goal here. The goal is in attempt to buy some street cred for an ill-conceived idea and then sell the crap as the latest and greatest. It has backfired miserably and I can't see a downside in the result....other than for the poor devils over at Aqua Blue team....

[sitzmark]

Originally Posted by batman1425

As was said before - the riders and staff are the biggest losers. I feel bad for those folks who work so hard just to have it all go up in smoke because of sponsor BS.

Don't see what has "gone up in smoke". Compared 2017 season jan-may and 2018 season jan-may and there's not a lot of difference in results. Pretty average team. Many of the same events both years, but not all the same.

Don't have a clue what the other 4697 issues are. Maybe they should post them so we have all the facts and can better understand if there is a common problem. On the surface it seems there's a mismatch between team and sponsor(s). To me it seems like the team isn't strong enough mentally or physically to overcome the challenge of taking on something completely new. The team leadership certainly understood they were signing up for a one trick pony. The riders most likely had little say, but from industry interviews beginning with announcement day forward it was clear they weren't too enthused. If Delaney is so sure the equipment is holding them back, he should be a leader and pony up (/raise) the cash to move them onto new gear and finish out the season as the champions they are meant to be.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by sitzmark

Don't see what has "gone up in smoke". Compared 2017 season jan-may and 2018 season jan-may and there's not a lot of difference in results. Pretty average team. Many of the same events both years, but not all the same.

Don't have a clue what the other 4697 issues are. Maybe they should post them so we have all the facts and can better understand if there is a common problem. On the surface it seems there's a mismatch between team and sponsor(s). To me it seems like the team isn't strong enough mentally or physically to overcome the challenge of taking on something completely new. The team leadership certainly understood they were signing up for a one trick pony. The riders most likely had little say, but from industry interviews beginning with announcement day forward it was clear they weren't too enthused. If Delaney is so sure the equipment is holding them back, he should be a leader and pony up (/raise) the cash to move them onto new gear and finish out the season as the champions they are meant to be.

Sounds like the stuff isn't working, breaking, too many mechanicals..doubt any stronger riders, physically or mentally would make those rear ders break less..

[sitzmark]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Sounds like the stuff isn't working, breaking, too many mechanicals..doubt any stronger riders, physically or mentally would make those rear ders break less..

We don't know if it's RD's breaking or if it was just one. The RD's seem to work fine in all other applications.

When you sign up to partner on a new concept, you understand the complexities and challenges involved and work together through the good and bad. i've done it many times with customers in medical diagnostics working through new product validations before full scale release. Either both parties have the mental persistence and understanding or they don't. In this case they don't. Time to move on.

[benb]

All this stuff in terms of blaming the mechanic for not setting a clutch release pin or errors cause he has to constantly swap chains to swap gearing and such do not absolve SRAM.

If the system requires more attention for setup due to the limitations it imposes on the bike that means more chances for the mechanic(s) and/or riders to make a mistake.

The comments about "don't need that big of a chainring" or "it's been OK for me" so 1X makes sense are nonsensical unless the poster is STRONG. I am no pro racer and the idea of getting by with a big ring less than 50 teeth for racing is a hilarious joke IMO. And at the wattages those guys ride having 10-20rpm jumps between gears sounds super annoying too. Maybe you get used to it but why should you have to when you haven't since 5-speed?

Short chainstays + pro rider + possible mechanical issues w/drivetain = All kinds of problems cropping up that regular riders won't uncover. On top of it all those mechanics might be amazing but they are so busy they have a lot more chances to make a mistake.

I am not of the opinion that MTB/cross are more demanding on the drivetain. Riders have more spacing in MTB & Cross. If the bike misbehaves in road circumstances & you are tightly spaced with other riders things go bad much more quickly than MTB & Cross where there are large buffers in terms of space.

Cassette concerns are amusing too since the best way to improve SRAM rear shifting is to get rid of the SRAM cassette. Same thing with the front chaingrings IME. . They probably have to swap stuff out to other brands anyway just to get the gearing they need since the system isn't designed for their application anyway.

[ptourkin]

Originally Posted by benb

I am no pro racer and the idea of getting by with a big ring less than 50 teeth for racing is a hilarious joke IMO.

42-9 is a bigger gear than 50-11. Just a minor quibble there. I don't doubt that the 9 can be causing some problems with the chain but gear inches wise, that analysis is off.