Trump approves tariffs on Chinese goods including $1 billion in bike products

[Aaron O]

Originally Posted by saab2000

More iconic, but almost certainly not better.

Automobiles are better today than they've ever been and that trend continues.

No - everything was better "back then". Even "back then" was better back then. Everything went wrong with the current generation.

What's the matter with kids today?

[93KgBike]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

Is that the same Polartec that has gone through 2 bankruptcies, and just announced that they will move all their manufacturing from Massachusetts to Tennessee due to the high cost of union labor, and the ability to cross-train workers on different machines (which the Massachusetts union laborers won't do)?

Bankruptcy shields companies from debt obligations, not quality control. Don Trump and George W. Bush have been through a combined 9 bankruptcies. If bankruptcy implied low quality, then you'd be arguing that they are terrible businessman and we elected low quality candidates.

Malden Mills was owned by its employees (shop-owned not union-shop) and had a hard time selling the best quality technical material textiles in the world into a market flooded by worthless Asian nylons. Bankruptcy allowed them to settle payroll and pensions for the American citizens they employed, but unfortunately also resulted in their debt being gobbled up by a capital investment fund. Ironically, the current tariffs would have benefited them, but came to late, and will hurt the investment fund that now owns them.

I've got a pair of The Black Bibs that are completely falling apart after 18 months (gotta post that review update) and Sugoi clothes badged (name licensed) Polartec that still look new 3 years later. My 8 year old Zion sofshell jacket, also Polartec badged, also still looks new 8 years later.

Americans did that. And I think my point stands.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by 93KgBike;2428877
[QUOTE

If bankruptcy implied low quality, then you'd be arguing that they are terrible businessman and we elected low quality candidates.

DOH! You said it, I didn’t. No argument from the ‘old potatoe patch’...

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by 93KgBike

Bankruptcy shields companies from debt obligations, not quality control. Don Trump and George W. Bush have been through a combined 9 bankruptcies. If bankruptcy implied low quality, then you'd be arguing that they are terrible businessman and we elected low quality candidates.

Well, I didn't bring that up, but now that you mention it ...

[HenryA]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

Manufacturing's main issue in the US isn't offshoring, it's automation. As the Saint Louis Fed points out in the below link, once you strip out the price level gap that exists between the country's overall price level (rising at about 3.2 percent since postwar, versus 2.2 percent for manufacturing), manufacturing has played a pretty consistent role in GDP.

https://www.stlouisfed.org/on-the-ec...ally-declining

Here's the Jeep manufacturing line in Toledo during WWII:



Here's the Ford assembly line in Louisville from February:



You tell me what looks different.

Thats another discussion. We still need to keep the base here whether its a bunch of guys doing the work or a bunch of robots.

[FlashUNC]

Originally Posted by HenryA

Thats another discussion. We still need to keep the base here whether its a bunch of guys doing the work or a bunch of robots.

But the point of the article is that the base is very much here. Manufacturing as a percentage of real GDP has remained basically the same since WWII. What's changed is the employment level (down due to automation), productivity in the sector (way up, thanks robots), and price level gains not matching those of the broader economy.

If the argument is for low-cost, low-skill manufacturing jobs to return in droves, well, that's simply not going to happen. Those that did not move overseas were eliminated due to automation. Just doesn't take an army of hands to assemble a Jeep anymore.

[gasman]

[QUOTE=oldpotatoe;2428882][QUOTE=93KgBike;2428877


DOH! You said it, I didn’t. No argument from the ‘old potatoe patch’...[/QUOTE]

Careful

We’ve had a good discussion. Let’s stay on the rails.

[livingminimal]

just a minor note, the WWII truck picture apparently comes from a site that has some malware stuff going on. Our virus protector picked up on it.
Thanks-

[Davist]

While automation replaces low skill jobs, it actually creates much more than it replaces. The countries with the largest adoption of robotics (South Korea and Germany, IIRC) have had increases in jobs across the board.

In Loudoun County Virginia (I'm in the data center business, this is ground zero for the internet globally) they have 2.9% unemployment, and if ALL those folks were hired tomorrow, wouldn't fill HALF the data center jobs available. Local high schools have programs where kids graduate with a 2 year associates degree in cyber security to help fill these jobs. HIGH SCHOOL! Google/Microsoft/Intel/Facebook have stopped requiring 4 year degrees because they need people, as you've no doubt seen.

Here's a link on automation and jobs in general, 800k "lost" leads to 3.5M new jobs: https://fee.org/articles/automation-...lion-new-jobs/

[goonster]

Originally Posted by Davist

Local high schools have programs where kids graduate with a 2 year associates degree in cyber security to help fill these jobs.

What is the starting salary for these data center jobs?

[ptourkin]

Originally Posted by HenryA

But its not a free market when there is only one supplier. Aviation as an example used above - two big companies control most of the world market. Boil that down to one and we’d all be riding on whatever they chose to make and at whatever price they picked. Nothing free about that.

And we have to actually make something. All this airy fairy talk about the service economy is just a pure lie. We might all be service workers but at some point someone has to actually make something. Someone has to raise the cattle and someone has to build the machines to make cattle into hamburger and some others need to build the machines to transport it or no Big Macs for you.

We GOTTA have a competent and capable infrastructure of business and industry. Outsourcing everything is not gonna work.

Within our borders government should stay out of picking the winners and losers. But when it comes to regulating how our country does business with the rest of the world it is a primary function of our government to do so in a manner that creates an environment that fosters success by Americans. This is one of the reasons we have a federal government. Its their job.

I find it interesting that it is the federal government's job to make the world safe for American business but not to make a living wage and health care available to the people who work in those businesses, hence the movement of what American manufacturing is left to "right to work" states in the libertarian South.

Our government does pick the winners, and they are rapidly becoming oligarchs.

[HenryA]

Originally Posted by ptourkin

I find it interesting that it is the federal government's job to make the world safe for American business but not to make a living wage and health care available to the people who work in those businesses, hence the movement of what American manufacturing is left to "right to work" states in the libertarian South.

Our government does pick the winners, and they are rapidly becoming oligarchs.

Lookin’ for trouble aren’t you?
What you wrote is not what I wrote.

Having a good paying job is really important but it takes an employer with money to pay it.

How can we possibly have any jobs here in any industry if the industry has moved to another country?

Jeeeshhhhh...

[Davist]

Originally Posted by goonster

What is the starting salary for these data center jobs?

Cyber security is fairly "in demand" right now.. in the $50k's were cited. Quick google for Associates and Cyber Security seem to verify. Seems good to me!

In PHL (I see you're in SE PA) if you want to join the electrical union, right out of high school, 2 years at $25/hr plus OT AND you get both a journeyman certificate and an associates in electrical tech. Good stuff out there..

[sfscott]

To truly understand the futility of tariffs in a fun way, I suggest you watch the following:

1) Ben Stein in Ferris Bueller's Day off talking about...anyone? The Smoot-Hawley tariff; and

2) Jon Oliver's recent feature on trade and the sole "economist," Peter Navarro, that Jared found by searching books on Amazon that thinks they work.

I'd link them, but I'm not that good.

100 years ago, our fearless leader would be trying to save the buggy whip industry.

While we're extolling the virtues of things like clean coal and steel, the rest of the world is advancing 5G wireless, biotech, A/I and robotics.

Not dismissing the pain from economic dislocation, but all creatures and organizations must adapt or whither. This is not the first time--nor the last time the nature of an economy will change. I suggest getting ahead of it rather than pick a fight with a country that thinks in 100 year increments and has had no problem starving and abusing its people for the "greater good." Oh and holds as good portion of the increasing treasury debt.

[joosttx]

Originally Posted by sfscott

While we're extolling the virtues of things like clean coal and steel, the rest of the world is advancing 5G wireless, biotech, A/I and robotics.

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