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  #121  
Old 09-25-2020, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Joel View Post
Even the clothing line is impressive.

And I just may have to get a new Campagnolo cap too...
Agreed!!! They told me every single call they had yesterday, they were asked about the bags and clothing. Everyone wanted them. Massive launch for them yesterday.
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  #122  
Old 09-25-2020, 09:25 AM
Mark McM Mark McM is offline
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Originally Posted by laupsi View Post
haven't read through the entire thread so forgive any redundancy, there's a lot of info/terminology for gravel w/this groupset. does it also have a niche w/mountain biking?
Not really. Ekar doesn't have a flat bar shifter, the smallest chainring is 38 teeth, and the narrow Q factor crank limits tire width. So, the it would really only work with the niche category of narrow tire drop bar MTBs - or in other words, gravel bikes
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  #123  
Old 09-25-2020, 09:28 AM
Mark McM Mark McM is offline
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Power shift lever?

Maybe I missed this earlier, but apparently Ekar uses Power-Shift rather than Ultra-Shift (so it shifts to smaller sprockets only one at a time), which Campagnolo usually uses on its lower spec. groups. How do we feel about that?
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  #124  
Old 09-25-2020, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by oldpotatoe View Post
What he said. "Campagnolo is on the ropes" smacks of ignorance and wears me out.

Need to mention Campagnolo/Fulcrum wheel biz too. I think larger than many others, including Zipp...

Campagnolo has done really well at defining their market and pursuing it aggressively but cautiously. They are NOT trying to be everything to everybody..like Porsche and Rolex..They are a 'premium' brand. If ya want a $1500 road or MTB, look elsewhere. 'Market share' isn't their number 1 priority..Let the 2 's' brands beat each other up and race to the bottom...

Remember, Campag MTB and first gen index shifting(CDA, AB Chorus)?...Valentino was behind that stuff right after Tullio died and I think he remembers those mis-steps pretty well.
"2 years late"...guess some forget a maker who rushed stuff into production, used the consumer as beta-testers, and had not only had a BIG $ recall but also a warranty department awash with claims....conservative is good.
Me too! The whole thing was stupid. And he got called out online. It even made it to Campy USA, UK and Campy HQ it was just so ridiculous. And the guy teaches people in the UK how to be a mechanic. Teaches shop employees! God knows how bad a teacher he really is.

Campy has their market dialed. And conservative is great. Cause look at how good EKAR is. Everyone who's tried it loves it. They might have been late, but like you said, the other S screwed the pooch YUUUUUGE with their brakes. The barrels in The Lab on Kingsbury must've been overflowing. Hell, it killed their IPO launch! So I say well done Campy for being a little late.
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  #125  
Old 09-25-2020, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark McM View Post
Maybe I missed this earlier, but apparently Ekar uses Power-Shift rather than Ultra-Shift (so it shifts to smaller sprockets only one at a time), which Campagnolo usually uses on its lower spec. groups. How do we feel about that?
It kind of sucks and not because 1 click at a time but just because ultra shift feels so much better. But they had to save some money somewhere.
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  #126  
Old 09-25-2020, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark McM View Post
Maybe I missed this earlier, but apparently Ekar uses Power-Shift rather than Ultra-Shift (so it shifts to smaller sprockets only one at a time), which Campagnolo usually uses on its lower spec. groups. How do we feel about that?
Who wants a downshift lever that can ratchet through multiple gears on gravel? It seems like a recipe for people shifting multiple gears accidentally when bouncing over the rough stuff. One gear at a time makes way more sense, especially for a 1x group.
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  #127  
Old 09-25-2020, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by FlashUNC View Post
Who wants a downshift lever that can ratchet through multiple gears on gravel? It seems like a recipe for people shifting multiple gears accidentally when bouncing over the rough stuff. One gear at a time makes way more sense, especially for a 1x group.
All types of riding benefit from being able to grab more than one gear at a time, for bicycles designed to ride over dynamic terrain this is even more important. One gear at a time is an inferior solution for any bike but more so for a gravel bike.
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  #128  
Old 09-25-2020, 10:58 AM
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I have no idea how sound the bike parts company is but I wouldn't conflate the real estate assets with the health of the bike parts company.
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  #129  
Old 09-25-2020, 11:06 AM
sjbraun sjbraun is offline
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Originally Posted by bicycletricycle View Post
All types of riding benefit from being able to grab more than one gear at a time, for bicycles designed to ride over dynamic terrain this is even more important. One gear at a time is an inferior solution for any bike but more so for a gravel bike.
Bullocks- I don't understand why people obsess over the ability to shift multiple cogs with a single throw of the lever. Sure it's fun to dump gears on a road bike when cresting a hill, but as quickly as modern shifters move the rear derailleur, there's really no appreciable limit to single cog shifting.

Exactly how do all riders benefit from being able to shift more than one gear at a time?
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  #130  
Old 09-25-2020, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bicycletricycle View Post
All types of riding benefit from being able to grab more than one gear at a time, for bicycles designed to ride over dynamic terrain this is even more important. One gear at a time is an inferior solution for any bike but more so for a gravel bike.
I love Ultrashift, but even on a road bike sometimes I'll grab more than the one gear I wanted. Now you're adding in a gravel surface, bouncing around everywhere and you're going to say that someone won't drop down several extra gears when all they wanted was one? And that won't be a bad design experience?

Thats absolute nonsense. Their implementation makes good design sense, one down, multiple up.
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  #131  
Old 09-25-2020, 11:28 AM
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I didn't say any of the things you are claiming I said.

I agree that, that is a bad experience, limiting the shifter to one at a time is a way to solve it, I just don't think it is the best way to solve it. A solution that allowed you to shift multiple gears while minimizing unwanted gear selections would be ideal. I am not saying this is some kind of make or break feature, just that it could be better and that I would prefer the ability to up shift multiple gears at one time accepting the risk of an occasional over shift.

Givin the layout of the ergo system and the parts campagnolo have already developed this may be the best compromise of cost, user experience and development time.




Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashUNC View Post
I love Ultrashift, but even on a road bike sometimes I'll grab more than the one gear I wanted. Now you're adding in a gravel surface, bouncing around everywhere and you're going to say that someone won't drop down several extra gears when all they wanted was one? And that won't be a bad design experience?

Thats absolute nonsense. Their implementation makes good design sense, one down, multiple up.
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  #132  
Old 09-25-2020, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashUNC View Post
Who wants a downshift lever that can ratchet through multiple gears on gravel? It seems like a recipe for people shifting multiple gears accidentally when bouncing over the rough stuff. One gear at a time makes way more sense, especially for a 1x group.
Me. If I use multiple shift capability everyday on the road, why would I not need it off road? I don't see your argument. Are you implying gravel is flatter and slower?
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  #133  
Old 09-25-2020, 11:37 AM
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like I said, I love US because the way it feels but I never bought on the... so much better cuz you can dump the cassette.... But hey, you want what you want I guess.
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  #134  
Old 09-25-2020, 11:37 AM
NHAero NHAero is offline
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I'm one who doesn't prefer the thumb button, and would like it less on a off-road gravel style bike. I can grip the hoods securely when riding my drop bar MTB down a rocky trail and shift reliably with Shimano STI levers. I have 10 speed Campy on my Casati and I have to move my hand up off the hood to shift the thumb lever. Not a tragedy, but not optimal for me.

Wondering if that new thumb button would make a difference, but not going to change out any of my bikes to try it out - no need.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpw View Post
I haven't used Campagnolo for years.


Does anyone find that the gear change lever on the side of the hood (the right hood for this new equipment) gets in the way of a natural hand position for the thumb when not changing gear?
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  #135  
Old 09-25-2020, 11:39 AM
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It isn't really a performance issue in my opinion. It is true that rapidly moving your finger to select multiple gears works pretty darn well and is in no way limiting your performance and may in fact be helping it in some way. I just don't think that is the only issue to be considered when designing a product for people.

I would benefit from selecting multiple gears at one time because I would like to be able to do it. That is really the beginning and end of the story. I could try and detail specific arguments about why I think it is a benefit but then you could do the same on the other side. The truth is, we can like different things and that is fine. I am glad you find this type of gear selection preferable, I have tried this type of shifter internals before from Camapagnolo and I didn't like it as much but perhaps this one will be great. I certainly look forward to trying this group out.



Quote:
Originally Posted by sjbraun View Post
Bullocks- I don't understand why people obsess over the ability to shift multiple cogs with a single throw of the lever. Sure it's fun to dump gears on a road bike when cresting a hill, but as quickly as modern shifters move the rear derailleur, there's really no appreciable limit to single cog shifting.

Exactly how do all riders benefit from being able to shift more than one gear at a time?
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