Builder's Spotlight The Paceline Forum Builder's Spotlight


Go Back   The Paceline Forum > General Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 10-09-2017, 09:24 PM
gasman's Avatar
gasman gasman is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: eugene,oregon
Posts: 4,727
Okay everyone, let's let the police and justice system do their job and not get into continuing arguments. 4 people almost died but the perpetrator was caught. So that's a positive for once.
__________________
Life is short-enjoy every day.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 10-11-2017, 05:52 AM
weisan's Avatar
weisan weisan is online now
ZhugeLiang
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Back in Austin, Texas
Posts: 10,568
Quote:
Originally Posted by weisan View Post

follow up
__________________
🏻*
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 10-11-2017, 07:55 PM
hobbanero hobbanero is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 48
Hitting cyclists is not a crime that gets punished except with a ticket. In this case, the driver left the scene. That, at least, is a felony because now it is hit and run. Since he wasn't taken into custody until many hours after the crash, no way to ascertain if he was DUI.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 10-11-2017, 09:46 PM
John H. John H. is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,128
Driver

Word on the street is that he split from the scene to avoid a DUI.
Also, he has a prior hit and run.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 10-11-2017, 10:18 PM
joosttx joosttx is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Larkspur, Ca
Posts: 1,953
Quote:
Originally Posted by John H. View Post
Word on the street is that he split from the scene to avoid a DUI.
Also, he has a prior hit and run.
wow, that is a lot of problems for a 21-year-old kid.
__________________
***Instagram***
my name is Houston
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 10-11-2017, 10:29 PM
John H. John H. is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,128
job

Yeah- I guess he had a decent city/county type job (and was still a probationary employee).

Quote:
Originally Posted by joosttx View Post
wow, that is a lot of problems for a 21-year-old kid.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 10-11-2017, 10:30 PM
BobO's Avatar
BobO BobO is offline
AZ Slowpoke
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Tucson
Posts: 570
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbanero View Post
Hitting cyclists is not a crime that gets punished except with a ticket.
This is not a valid statement in this case.

He has been charged with several very serious crimes times four, specifically because he deliberately hit the cyclists. I think this is what we're looking for and he is going to prison for a long time, hopefully.
__________________
Old'n'Slow
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 10-11-2017, 11:53 PM
donevwil's Avatar
donevwil donevwil is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Petaluma, CA
Posts: 2,422
Quote:
Originally Posted by John H. View Post
Word on the street is that he split from the scene to avoid a DUI.
Also, he has a prior hit and run.
I heard about a prior DUI in April this year, didn't know about a previous hit and run. Frightening.

I vote oak tree justice.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 10-12-2017, 02:25 AM
Gothard Gothard is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Swiss Alps
Posts: 2,191
Quote:
Originally Posted by gasman View Post
Okay everyone, let's let the police and justice system do their job and not get into continuing arguments. 4 people almost died but the perpetrator was caught. So that's a positive for once.
Disclaimer: I am not living in the US, and don't know the legal system there(at all).
That's the point: we (you) can NOT leave it to the police and justice system, because time and again, the system has shown that cyclists lives have little value.
What is the difference between mowing down a peloton, arguably intentionally, and going on a murder spree with a gun? results are remarkably similar, yet one gets a slap on the wrist, and the other becomes Vlad the Impaler's offspring, and gets treated as such...

Maybe if the sidelines (us) become vocal enough, the system will open their eyes.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 10-12-2017, 03:05 AM
joosttx joosttx is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Larkspur, Ca
Posts: 1,953
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gothard View Post
Disclaimer: I am not living in the US, and don't know the legal system there(at all).
That's the point: we (you) can NOT leave it to the police and justice system, because time and again, the system has shown that cyclists lives have little value.
What is the difference between mowing down a peloton, arguably intentionally, and going on a murder spree with a gun? results are remarkably similar, yet one gets a slap on the wrist, and the other becomes Vlad the Impaler's offspring, and gets treated as such...

Maybe if the sidelines (us) become vocal enough, the system will open their eyes.
You take a very simplistic view of justice to the point it becomes unjust. Premediated murder, to crimes of passion, to manslaughter all result in the same outcome. However, intent differs. Intent is important. The las vegas shooter intended to kill many people, planned it, and executed. Driver in a fit of rage may hit a cyclist not intending to kill him but does. Someone makes a turn and hits and kills a cyclist who ran a red light. All are examples of different intent. A lawyer probably could explain it better than I.

Does each one who killed in the examples deserve to go to jail? If so, do they all deserve the same sentence? You seem to suggest this. I disagree.

I think the issue here with cyclists and vehicles is its hard to prove that the driver was trying to intentionally kill the cyclist in most cases. I cannot recall a premediated killing spree on cyclist by a driver. Also, there is a dislike towards cyclist by the general population which doesnt help a cyclist favor when the facts a gray.
__________________
***Instagram***
my name is Houston

Last edited by joosttx; 10-12-2017 at 03:08 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 10-12-2017, 03:17 AM
Gothard Gothard is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Swiss Alps
Posts: 2,191
Joost, you are right, my view is simplistic, and the intent is most times difficult to prove when a driver flattens a few cyclists. There are however enough cases of people publicly posting their hate for cyclist, and then, simply by... accident, hitting one.

Still, it is mind boggling to seee how every cog in the justice system dismisses cyclists as a nuisance, and is reluctant to even give them their most basic rights.

For every much publicised case where a drunk priest or a bad tempered physician gets (half) the book thrown at them, how many are back on the streets the next day?
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 10-26-2017, 09:44 PM
Heisenberg Heisenberg is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 279
I went to his arraignment today, along with a number of others from the local cycling community.

His bail was increased to $200k and he was sent back to jail. No plea yet.

Couldn’t help but feel sorry for the dumb kid. Wish there we more creative consequences to be meted out vs. sending people to prison.

In any case, he’ll be made an example of.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 10-26-2017, 10:15 PM
joosttx joosttx is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Larkspur, Ca
Posts: 1,953
http://www.marinij.com/general-news/...nd-run-suspect


Here are some details from the local newspaper about the arraignment with a video.
__________________
***Instagram***
my name is Houston
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 10-26-2017, 10:26 PM
BobO's Avatar
BobO BobO is offline
AZ Slowpoke
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Tucson
Posts: 570
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
Couldn’t help but feel sorry for the dumb kid.
I'll bite,... why?
__________________
Old'n'Slow
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 10-26-2017, 10:54 PM
54ny77 54ny77 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 9,062
1) Already had another hit & run charge, likely while under influence (since open bottle found).
2) Since when is driving a fundamental right? That public defender needs to go back to online correspondence law school.


------------------------

"Prosecutor Karen Lamb argued for the bail increase, noting that Paff already has another hit-and-run charge pending from May. No one was injured in that incident, but Paff allegedly struck a support post at a Novato shopping center and was driving with an open container of alcohol.

“I do believe he is a danger,” Lamb said.

Paff’s public defender, Michael Schroettner, said the bail increase was inappropriate because of Paff’s age and lack of prior criminal convictions. Schroettner also said that prohibiting Paff from driving was an “infringement on a fundamental right.”

Last edited by 54ny77; 10-26-2017 at 11:09 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:41 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.