Champion cyclist Ethan Boyes hit and killed by driver in SF

[zmalwo]

im pretty sure statistically road cycling is one of the most dangerous sports out there. with how much mileage we cover, you never know who's on what behind those wheels. one simple swirl = lights out.

[nmrt]

i'd say that football, the american kind, is more dangerous than road cycling. or alpine mountaineering, or rock climbing.

Originally Posted by zmalwo

im pretty sure statistically road cycling is one of the most dangerous sports out there. with how much mileage we cover, you never know who's on what behind those wheels. one simple swirl = lights out.

[glepore]

Going to be unpopular here, I know, but the defendant is 81. That likely factors into the plea arrangement. First of all, if he gets ill in prison (pretty likely as food and healthcare there suck) the state is going to have to bear 100% of the cost of his care. Also, isn't a year in prison for someone 81 the functional equivalent of a substantially longer sentence for someone much younger?
And we know nothing, literally zero, about his mental health or sharpness of mind, which very well might have played a role in his lack of judgement on the day in question.
I'd reserve armchair quarterbacking until we know more. The judge will order a presentence investigation that will uncover some of these facts before he decides to accept or reject.

[azrider]

Originally Posted by Likes2ridefar

Making them ride a bike in front of a large vehicle until they get run down.

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[sfo1]

I believe the bigger is - he consumed alcohol and got behind the wheel. Bad things happened. I understand the 'death sentence' issue of his age and sentencing.

With the current local media /election cycle, maybe the fed judge does not want to be lumped into the 'soft on crime' narrative.

Originally Posted by glepore

Going to be unpopular here, I know, but the defendant is 81. That likely factors into the plea arrangement. First of all, if he gets ill in prison (pretty likely as food and healthcare there suck) the state is going to have to bear 100% of the cost of his care. Also, isn't a year in prison for someone 81 the functional equivalent of a substantially longer sentence for someone much younger?
And we know nothing, literally zero, about his mental health or sharpness of mind, which very well might have played a role in his lack of judgement on the day in question.
I'd reserve armchair quarterbacking until we know more. The judge will order a presentence investigation that will uncover some of these facts before he decides to accept or reject.

[Alistair]

Originally Posted by glepore

And we know nothing, literally zero, about his mental health or sharpness of mind, which very well might have played a role in his lack of judgement on the day in question.

He was drunk. He didn't just space out and forget he was driving, he went out and consumed alcohol and got in a car. I don't give a rats ass if he's 41 or 81 or 101, a DUI is a serious crime.

Is jail the appropriate sentence for a DUI? I don't know - treatment, community service, whatever else, might be a better option. But that's a broader discussion - is the sentencing 100% about punishment, or is it also about treatment and preventing recurrence.

[KJMUNC]

Originally Posted by nmrt

i'd say that football, the american kind, is more dangerous than road cycling. or alpine mountaineering, or rock climbing.

except that no one drives onto the field during football and mows down the players....so there's that.

equating head injuries in football or soccer to being literally run over and killed is pretty weak.

[Alistair]

Originally Posted by KJMUNC

except that no one drives onto the field during football and mows down the players....so there's that.

equating head injuries in football or soccer to being literally run over and killed is pretty weak.

Deadly vs Dangerous.

Football is dangerous - the incidence of serious head/neck/brain injury is very high. Is it deadly? Maybe not, at least not until you include the long-tail of CTE issues.

I can't find good statistics for the deadliness of cycling. By raw numbers, walking is more dangerous in the UK, but there are more people walking than riding bikes, so not really a surprise. I can't easily find those figures adjusted per trip or per km traveled.

[nmrt]

I was looking at "dangerous" sport from an objective perspective and not from an emotional one. But if I were, I agree with you.

Originally Posted by KJMUNC

except that no one drives onto the field during football and mows down the players....so there's that.

equating head injuries in football or soccer to being literally run over and killed is pretty weak.

[rallizes]

Originally Posted by Alistair

He was drunk. He didn't just space out and forget he was driving, he went out and consumed alcohol and got in a car. I don't give a rats ass if he's 41 or 81 or 101, a DUI is a serious crime.

Is jail the appropriate sentence for a DUI? I don't know - treatment, community service, whatever else, might be a better option. But that's a broader discussion - is the sentencing 100% about punishment, or is it also about treatment and preventing recurrence.

Everything else aside, I don't think you should ever be allowed to drive again if you kill someone with a car while drunk.

[benb]

Originally Posted by paredown

I freaking hate that the Times headline is passive voice nonsense:
"Track Cycling Champion Dies in Collision"

Howzabout 'Struck by a driver and killed'

Ugh.. that headline is actually progress over what you would typically have expected.

"Track Cycling Champion Dies in Bicycle Accident".

Traditionally they would make it even more vague that an automobile was involved at all and they would use accident to imply there is nothing that could be done about it and riding a bike is just rolling the dice and nothing about automotive driver behavior was really relevant.

"Track Cycling Champion Dies after being struck by DUI driver" doesn't let all the drivers keep feeling as smug and superior.

[72gmc]

Originally Posted by Alistair

He was drunk. He didn't just space out and forget he was driving, he went out and consumed alcohol and got in a car. I don't give a rats ass if he's 41 or 81 or 101, a DUI is a serious crime.

Is jail the appropriate sentence for a DUI? I don't know - treatment, community service, whatever else, might be a better option. But that's a broader discussion - is the sentencing 100% about punishment, or is it also about treatment and preventing recurrence.

I've always figured deterrent value is also part of prosecutors' thinking in DUI cases. But does an effective life sentence for an 81-year-old deter anyone else from drinking and driving? I have no personal experience with alcoholism, so I'm not sure a sentence for someone else matters much when someone has this problem.

[Likes2ridefar]

Originally Posted by rallizes

Everything else aside, I don't think you should ever be allowed to drive again if you kill someone with a car while drunk.

In more advanced countries you don’t even need to kill someone or be drunk.

My SO’s 74yo father in the Czech Republic lost his license for a year after he was pulled over and tested positive for alcohol. He had had one Pilsner before driving and not immediately after. He does it again it’s permanent.

[rallizes]

Originally Posted by 72gmc

I've always figured deterrent value is also part of prosecutors' thinking in DUI cases. But does an effective life sentence for an 81-year-old deter anyone else from drinking and driving? I have no personal experience with alcoholism, so I'm not sure a sentence for someone else matters much when someone has this problem.

Japan seems pretty hardcore about drunk driving and it seems effective?

older article but...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterly...vers-in-japan/

'In Japan, a country with arguably the harshest drink-driving laws in the world, drivers don’t chance it. They just don’t drink and drive. After a spate of alcohol-related fatal traffic accidents around the turn of the century, Japanese authorities decided to enact tougher laws to solve this societal problem. Imposed in 2002, the new stricter drink-driving laws saw alcohol-fueled fatalities drop by over half instantly, and by up to 80 percent over the next few years.'

[zmalwo]

Originally Posted by rallizes

Japan seems pretty hardcore about drunk driving and it seems effective?

older article but...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterly...vers-in-japan/

'In Japan, a country with arguably the harshest drink-driving laws in the world, drivers don’t chance it. They just don’t drink and drive. After a spate of alcohol-related fatal traffic accidents around the turn of the century, Japanese authorities decided to enact tougher laws to solve this societal problem. Imposed in 2002, the new stricter drink-driving laws saw alcohol-fueled fatalities drop by over half instantly, and by up to 80 percent over the next few years.'

but when do Americans ever take advice from anyone? We are still using imperial units lol.