Gotta buy some new bikes. Gravel and mtb. Bang for buck?

[HenryA]

Originally Posted by tommyrod74

snipped a whole bunch…

It also means that an older XC bike is more than sufficient for most people’s trails, and for anyone’s gravel needs.
.

I think this is so true.
Especially for someone starting out or dabbling with MTBs.

[tommyrod74]

Originally Posted by NHAero

I can understand why modern slacker HTAs, longer FC, shorter CSs, and short stem/wide bars helps on steep descents. I'm not understanding why the same helps climbing.

The short answer is it doesn’t. The long answer is the original changes, like wide bars and short stems, coupled with slacker head angles, were horrible at climbing. Once it was discovered that a steeper seat angle brought back a lot of that climbing ability, and kind of centered the rider for a better handling with the slacker head angle, it brought the newer bikes closer to traditional climbing ability. Maybe equal to traditional. They still struggle a little bit on tighter switchbacks, both up and downhill, because of the longer wheelbase. Nothing that a good rider cannot adapt to.

One undeniable benefit of the newer bike geometries is the margin for error, especially on the last lap of the race when you are tired in your brain is turned off. Much more forgiving, especially at speed.

[merlinmurph]

Originally Posted by Loren090

I've tried the whole gravel bike on singletrack thing and never could get used to drop bars on trails, even fairly mellow.

Then again, I've gotten very used to it and it's now second nature. Oh yeah, there were a few *ahem* crashes along the way.

My dirt rides are all over the place ranging from pavement to smooth doubletrack to singletrack to semi-technical stuff. NE singletrack can get bony and if there is too much rock/roots, I'll skip it. But, if there's just a short really rocky section in an otherwise nice trail, I'm riding. Put another way, I ride a lot of the stuff I used to ride my mtb on.

[Epicus07]

Fat supple tires and a redshift go a long way. There’s a big difference doing a rooty descent with this “gravel suspension”compared to white knuckling it on some overinflated 700x35s.


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[jwin]

For living in Boulder, being a road rider, and wanting to expand to gravel / MTB I would say, without a doubt, either a Specialized Chisel or a Specialized Epic / Epic Evo.

I would lean towards the Epic Evo and then decide after riding some trails what you like. Or checkout the Specialized Demo Center. There's plenty of gravel and MTB near Boulder, but hard to find one bike that will do both without a major tradeoff. The XC hardtails by Specialized are fast and efficient, and besides tires the only real loss you'll feel on gravel is the aero disadvantage of flat bars. The disadvantage of drop bars and no-suspension on MTB trails is huge, and though do-able it's not the same style of riding when you're just trying to "survive" the down. I've done it both ways.

In addition, I think going full MTB makes more sense because it's a further departure from road riding to give you a taste of what it's like. You probably wouldn't appreciate a trail bike (think 130-140mm travel) as much due to the loss of efficiency and less aggressive riding position.

EDIT: If you're budget is really tight, I would get a base model Chisel, upgrade the wheels and the fork (SID - I'd reco the 120mm travel). And you could be right around $3k. Then depending on speed and grip you want pick your tires (Ground Control, Fasttrak, Renegade). You'll actually be able to ride MTB trails at speed and you won't lose much on gravel.

[tommyrod74]

Originally Posted by jwin

For living in Boulder, being a road rider, and wanting to expand to gravel / MTB I would say, without a doubt, either a Specialized Chisel or a Specialized Epic / Epic Evo.

I would lean towards the Epic Evo and then decide after riding some trails what you like. Or checkout the Specialized Demo Center. There's plenty of gravel and MTB near Boulder, but hard to find one bike that will do both without a major tradeoff. The XC hardtails by Specialized are fast and efficient, and besides tires the only real loss you'll feel on gravel is the aero disadvantage of flat bars. The disadvantage of drop bars and no-suspension on MTB trails is huge, and though do-able it's not the same style of riding when you're just trying to "survive" the down. I've done it both ways.

In addition, I think going full MTB makes more sense because it's a further departure from road riding to give you a taste of what it's like. You probably wouldn't appreciate a trail bike (think 130-140mm travel) as much due to the loss of efficiency and less aggressive riding position.

EDIT: If you're budget is really tight, I would get a base model Chisel, upgrade the wheels and the fork (SID - I'd reco the 120mm travel). And you could be right around $3k. Then depending on speed and grip you want pick your tires (Ground Control, Fasttrak, Renegade). You'll actually be able to ride MTB trails at speed and you won't lose much on gravel.

What he said.

[kedbro]

Originally Posted by tommyrod74

The short answer is it doesn’t. The long answer is the original changes, like wide bars and short stems, coupled with slacker head angles, were horrible at climbing. Once it was discovered that a steeper seat angle brought back a lot of that climbing ability, and kind of centered the rider for a better handling with the slacker head angle, it brought the newer bikes closer to traditional climbing ability. Maybe equal to traditional. They still struggle a little bit on tighter switchbacks, both up and downhill, because of the longer wheelbase. Nothing that a good rider cannot adapt to.

One undeniable benefit of the newer bike geometries is the margin for error, especially on the last lap of the race when you are tired in your brain is turned off. Much more forgiving, especially at speed.

And beyond geometry, modern suspension design is also just a lot better. 1x drivetrains really opened up frame design and the tech keeps improving. The rear ends of trail bikes made in the last five years feel great going uphill. I'd skip the dedicated XC rig unless one really knew that racing would be a focus (or if you really wanted to use it on gravel roads too... but I'm not totally sold on that) and go straight to a 120-140mm trail bike.

[josephr]

Originally Posted by jwin

Or checkout the Specialized Demo Center.

+1 -- In Denver, a lot of great bike shops will rent bikes for a few days...last time I was there I rented a Yeti full-suspension for like $75 for a weekend. Absolute blast to ride, but I'd never put that kinda money out to purchase/own tho as I'm still a HT kinda guy. The point of renting for you tho is the opportunity to try out a lot of bikes and get a feel of what you like and what to spend. Overall, the Trek Marlin series has a lot of great options and technology has come so far and filtered down a lot. Even entry-to-mid level hydraulic brakes are way much better than what was being put out 10-15 years ago.

[TronnyJenkins]

Thanks!!
Moving, or shall I say actually driving, tomorrow. Getting excited to ride.

[TronnyJenkins]

Updates. After remodeling chores and moving have settled a bit, I finally got to do my first off-road ride today, on a borrowed bike that didn't fit very well. I even flatted out and walked 2.5 miles but still had fun. I now have more of an itch to shop for a mtb.

What do you guys think about this for someone in my position? I found a local one for well under the price on this page. Sub 2k. They said the rear shock has been serviced in the past year and claim the forks are good to go. I'm not really in a rush, but it seems a good deal.

https://99spokes.com/bikes/giant/2017/anthem-advanced-1

[TronnyJenkins]

This is another one that looks interesting if he would work with me a bit on price.
https://denver.craigslist.org/bik/d/...515657326.html

Alternatively, my BIL has a Giant Trance (XT) that I believe is probably a 2014 that he would give me a really good deal on. Any thoughts on those three for this area and / or their age? (Anthem is a 2017, Trance a 2014, Specialized Epic Pro is a 2018 if you don’t want to go to the links)

[mtbmoose]

The drivetrain on the Epic looks pretty worn. I think you’d be looking at a new cassette and front chainring at a minimum. Other components may be suspect as well.

Without a visual of the real Anthem, hard to say anything about condition.

That 2014 Trance will definitely have older geometry and servicing those older components will be more problematic.

Sight unseen, I’d probably pick the Anthem over the Epic, but only because I prefer the dual link Maestro suspension to the Specialized Horst Link design. The former is snappier at the pedals without needing so much shock platform to overcome its shortcomings.

Best of luck in your search.

[mtbmoose]

How about this one?

https://denver.craigslist.org/bik/d/...507650135.html

[TronnyJenkins]

Originally Posted by mtbmoose

How about this one?

https://denver.craigslist.org/bik/d/...507650135.html

That looks pretty cool. I like how new it is.
My thinking on the Anthem is try to get him down to $1500 since it’s got some scratches on derailleurs etc. I just don’t like the 27.5. I’d kind of like 29er I think.

Here is one other option I found out about. My friend said he would do $1850. I didn’t know he was going to be buying a new bike soon. It’s a 2015, but obviously he has upgraded most components. Most are obvious in the photo (xx1, Enve M50s, shocks?) and also it has Stages power. I figure that sounds like a fair price, but the geometry may be long in the tooth…

[vespasianus]

Originally Posted by NHAero

I can understand why modern slacker HTAs, longer FC, shorter CSs, and short stem/wide bars helps on steep descents. I'm not understanding why the same helps climbing.

It is the move to steep seat angles. Lot of old MTBs used 71 degree seat angles. Now, 76 or 77 is common on lots of bikes.

Without that, they would climb like pigs.

But the combination of slack head angles, longer top tubes and steeper seat angles works magic.