Tour of Poland crash (8/5/20)

[GregL]

Originally Posted by benb

This is no different to me as the constant chatter of "hold your line" in packs and amateur races. Everyone in the back who can't see where they are going is assuming the people in the front (who can't see where the people in the back are) is going to keep them safe. If the riders in the back get real they have to accept that they need to keep themselves safe, and keeping yourself safe means not putting your safety in the hands of a person in front of you who doesn't know where you are and has to deal with what is in front of them.

If you enter a mass start bicycle race, as an amateur or a pro, you are participating in an unsafe event. Any other assumption is delusional. If you want to increase your level of safety, don't race or participate in race-level training rides. Shoulder-to-shoulder with other riders at 30 MPH, with only Lycra and Styrofoam as protection, is not and has never been "safe."

Greg

[e-RICHIE]

Sprinters are a breed unto themselves. They're not like the other 160 riders on the start line, and certainly not like any of us who've never raced for a living.

No matter the current rules, the newer and improved rules whatever they may be, sprinters will bend them to suit their craft.

It's nice, and even quaint, that folks wanna stuff all these riders (sprinters, climbers, domestiques) in one tidy box with rules for all. But it won't happen.

Sprinting is spectacle. Part of the entertainment. And if the show doesn't maintain element of risk or danger, the sport will lose appeal.

ps

arrange disorder

[benb]

Originally Posted by GregL

If you enter a mass start bicycle race, as an amateur or a pro, you are participating in an unsafe event. Any other assumption is delusional. If you want to increase your level of safety, don't race or participate in race-level training rides. Shoulder-to-shoulder with other riders at 30 MPH, with only Lycra and Styrofoam as protection, is not and has never been "safe."

Greg

I'm obviously way beyond this.. this whole thread is about people thinking making 1% differences is going to suddenly make 45mph sprints with 50 guys on top of each other "safe". That's the delusion.

We need to accept that it's fundamentally stupid dangerous and this is going to keep happen or recognize that a huge change needs to happen.

Painting lines is a joke.. it will just help assess blame but it won't stop things from happening.

Most of the thread seems to be about pointing blame at a guy who is in the hospital. None of the riders are the problem here, it's the whole system.

[jpw]

A crazy idea (one of several possible crazy ideas to mitigate risk in sprinting) but what if all riders outside the top ten at the 1K mark must drop back and not participate in any way in the sprint.

[thegunner]

Originally Posted by jpw

A crazy idea (one of several possible crazy ideas to mitigate risk in sprinting) but what if all riders outside the top ten at the 1K mark must drop back and not participate in any way in the sprint.

wouldn't everyone just sprint to 1k to go to guarantee themselves a top 10? that just shifts the issue 60s earlier.

[e-RICHIE]

Originally Posted by jpw

A crazy idea (one of several possible crazy ideas to mitigate risk in sprinting)

Sprinting (esp at that level) IS risk.

Originally Posted by jpw

but what if all riders outside the top ten at the 1K mark must drop back and not participate in any way in the sprint.

Correct. Crazy idea.

[jpw]

Originally Posted by thegunner

wouldn't everyone just sprint to 1k to go to guarantee themselves a top 10? that just shifts the issue 60s earlier.

Not sure. The sprinters wouldn't want to burn their legs twice. It could get very tactical and cagey. Before the 1k (or even 2k) mark the road should be wider, and therefore safer. It can be controlled over the race radio in real time. Just one idea. Brainstorming.

[jpw]

Originally Posted by e-RICHIE

Sprinting (esp at that level) IS risk.



Correct. Crazy idea.

Apparently Jakobsen lost all his teeth. Anything to reduce the risk is worth considering.

[e-RICHIE]

Originally Posted by jpw

Apparently Jakobsen lost all his teeth. Anything to reduce the risk is worth considering.

A mouthguard, as in boxing?

[glepore]

@benb- that’s ridiculous. Yes in most forms of racing the obligationis on the overtaking rider/car/boat. But NEVER is the overtaken allowed to reach out and hot the overtaking. It was a narrow space but there was a clear hip check.

Physical bumping in sprinting has been tolerated in varying degrees in track and road cycling for too long, and this is the result. Its one thing to lean your head on a rider to slow him, another to ride him into the barrier and throw a check.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jpw]

Originally Posted by e-RICHIE

A mouthguard, as in boxing?

Boxing? This is cycling.

We all know the real problem. It's the tenuous economics of the sport. The business model does not work. In the pursuit of the spectacular lives are put at risk. The UCI is a poodle.

[e-RICHIE]

Originally Posted by jpw

Boxing? This is cycling.

Teeth are teeth.
Protective gear is made for that purpose.
Look at Keirin racing.

Originally Posted by jpw

We all know the real problem. It's the tenuous economics of the sport. The business model does not work. In the pursuit of the spectacular lives are put at risk. The UCI is a poodle.

That too.

So, maybe those for whom there are the highest stakes (the riders...) find a way to replace the UCI. The UCI won't change at least until all the current and next-in-line execs and peeps age out of the system. The system is ancient. But it's their system to wrangle. We're simply the audience.

[carpediemracing]

Originally Posted by pasadena

I counted about five times Groenevegen looked back during his sprint.
That's not even debatable.

It was the 3rd look where G keeps looking and starts to respond to J. At that point J has just launched, and J has been soft pedaling or coasting while sheltering, which is absolutely ideal.

That 3rd look G moves over about 3 feet almost immediately (and G was actually moving slightly left when he looks down and then moves to the right hard).

Closing the door is one thing. Slamming it shut is another.

I definitely close doors but I don't cross that line. Usually I don't even close it if I'm in front, I just never open it fully. I'll leave just a bit too little room to pass to the curb, like 1/2 bike width. It offers a glimmer of hope that I might accidentally open the gap. It's usually enough to hold the curbside rider for a second or three, and that's usually enough to put them out of the picture.

One time I definitely held the door closed - it wasn't that I closed it, I just didn't move over to give the other racer room. I beat the other racer. A later race, with the same racer, I did the "half open door" thing but then lost focus, it became an open door, and I decided not to close the door. The racer beat me. The other racer is an absolute stud on the bike - that's my impression of him. He probably thinks of me as annoyingly effective in keeping him from being able to open up.

http://sprinterdellacasa.blogspot.co...d-kontact.html

[jpw]

Originally Posted by e-RICHIE

Teeth are teeth.
Protective gear is made for that purpose.
Look at Keirin racing.



That too.

So, maybe those for whom there are the highest stakes (the riders...) find a way to replace the UCI. The UCI won't change at least until all the current and next-in-line execs and peeps age out of the system. The system is ancient. But it's their system to wrangle. We're simply the audience.

Comparing it to boxing tells me that cycling has gone to the edge and beyond.

It's an obsession with media ratings and audience figures. The attention economy of the mass media. ASO is the block to change.

[e-RICHIE]

Originally Posted by jpw

Comparing it to boxing tells me that cycling has gone too close to the edge.

Boxing and cycling are the same sport.
Always have been.
Old school.
Pre-war roots.
Pre-televised sports roots.
Pre-motorsports roots.
Run by the same thugs who once comprised the group of athletes they govern.
Run by men.