Hambini vs Kerin (ZFC)

[Carbonita]

Critique on the methods and results of Zero Friction Cycling. Good points made perhaps, rank conjecture on motivations, and unsatisfying conclusions.
https://www.hambini.com/the-murky-wo...igged-results/

[mstateglfr]

Your poll needs a 5th option.

[CAAD]

Eh don't care it's just a bicycle.

[bicycletricycle]

I like Hambini but he is equal parts serious technical advisor and crap talking loon. I think he makes some good points but some of them seem to be critique for its own sake. Kerin’s set up is obviously pretty garbage but that doesn’t mean its results are totally useless.

[kiwisimon]

Originally Posted by mstateglfr

Your poll needs a 5th option.

DGAF?

I'd hit that.

[MO Will]

Read through the linked Hambini blog post. I am not typically a big fan of Hambini. I have had my doubts about ZFC and the post makes me really wonder. A little disappointing as we could use a reliable independent resource in this space.

[glepore]

I think Hambini has a point. The blog post is lacking his usual bombast.

That said, I don't care about the performance benefits of waxed chains. I wax because chains with liquid lube leave marks on things and are generally hard to clean and gross. Waxed chains wear as well or better and are clean. Enough for me.

[fa63]

I switched from Rock-n-Roll Gold to wax several years ago, and have indeed noticed a lower wear rate. That said, I do agree with Hambini that it would be nice if there was a way to shift the rear derailleur up and down the cassette in a repeatable way during testing. What I noticed with my last SRAM chain was that while "elongation" was not an issue, it started not shifting as crisply after about 6,000 miles so I replaced it.

But as glepore stated, another huge benefit of wax for me is the cleanliness of the drivetrain (and the silence as well).

[mcteague]

Well. Hambini, whatever you think of him, seems to have his receipts in order. ZFC appears to have setup a very ad-hoc testing arrangement. FWIW, I wax my chain really to have a cleaner bike. Most likely the parts will last longer as well. I could really not care less about any watts saved.

Tim

[November Dave]

Originally Posted by MO Will

Read through the linked Hambini blog post. I am not typically a big fan of Hambini. I have had my doubts about ZFC and the post makes me really wonder. A little disappointing as we could use a reliable independent resource in this space.

Agreed. The problem with reliable independent resources is that everyone needs to monetize. The cycling media used to provide this role to some degree or another, but that ship seems to have sailed. The world has sort of proven that it's unbelievably hard to monetize information, and way easier to monetize selling a product. Using reliable info to differentiate your selling prop is great, and it's what we tried to do at November, but it doesn't always work. The number of emails I've gotten over the years that go something like "hey thanks for the great info, I used it to decide to buy product x from company y" still grinds my (un-waxed or otherwise lubed) gears.

Notable also that Hambini doesn't say what to do as far as chain prep, he just says not to trust ZFC. Which is typical of his unpalatable and usually offensive schtick.

That said I've gone to waxing as it's convenient enough and wildly cleaner.

[jadmt]

Hambini definitely was able to poke holes in zfc methods...but I can say I am approaching 7000 miles on an ultegra chain that has been waxed since day 1 of use and prior to that would get 1500-1800 from a well lubed ultegra chain..I am guilty of cross chaining both ways.

[makoti]

Originally Posted by mcteague

Well. Hambini, whatever you think of him, seems to have his receipts in order. ZFC appears to have setup a very ad-hoc testing arrangement. FWIW, I wax my chain really to have a cleaner bike. Most likely the parts will last longer as well. I could really not care less about any watts saved.

Tim

Same. I started when I started riding gravel. Every ride, no matter how dry, required a good cleaning of the drivetrain. That got old. With wax, just quickly wipe it off and if I forget, it's still fine. I'm too old and slow to care about saving an eighth of a watt, but clean thing last longer and my chain was anything but clean with wet lube.

[martl]

Originally Posted by glepore

I think Hambini has a point. The blog post is lacking his usual bombast.

He toned down quite a bit recently. Not that i mind if someone is calling out dirtbags, cheats and liars.
His criticism of Kerin looks sound to me.

[vespasianus]

Originally Posted by jadmt

Hambini definitely was able to poke holes in zfc methods...but I can say I am approaching 7000 miles on an ultegra chain that has been waxed since day 1 of use and prior to that would get 1500-1800 from a well lubed ultegra chain..I am guilty of cross chaining both ways.

Getting only 2000 miles from a chain would tend to indicate something else being wrong...

[martl]

Originally Posted by vespasianus

Getting only 2000 miles from a chain would tend to indicate something else being wrong...

Seing that chain waxing focussed many a rider for the first time to invest a good amount of effort in regular, short-intervalled maintenance, i can't help but assume a classic grease-lubed chain getting the same kind of regular (and correct*) attention would last as long and run as smooth

*) Jobst Brandt, iirc, wrote lengthy articles on usenet about the way in which a well-meant regular maintenance may shorten the life-span of a bicycle chain considerably

Wax is used in other technical applications, but it is limited to special areas, where grease can not be used, as in food processing, where the environment is rich on small particles like dust or fluff from textile processing, so the stickiness of grease creates a problem, or where regular maintenance is not possible (lifelong lubrication), this is for chains running under low load and other restrictions, like max temperature lower than 60°C.
The vast majority of chains running in all kind of machines simply run greased, and there are good reasons for that.

I get the wish for a clean and silent drivetrain on a bicycle may be worth the increased effort and cost for some; i doubt you get better technical performance (as in: lower friction).