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[AngryScientist]

In my ongoing battle against bots and spammers trying to join the forum, I have noticed a new trend that many of the bad actor email addresses are .xyz emails, usually completely random letters or jibberish. Is this some new domain (or whatever you call it) that is easy to sign up for multiple email adresses? In some cases a user will use the same IP address and request multiple forum user names using multiple different ixyz addresses. I dont get it?

If anyone is reading this forum, wanting to join and be approved: dont sign up using a .xyz address. you will not be approved.

[rice rocket]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

If anyone is reading this forum, wanting to join and be approved: dont sign up using a .xyz address. you will not be approved.

Can't they not read this forum w/o an account now?

Another reason to update this ancient software is that user verification is a lot better on newer forums.

[Likes2ridefar]

I just searched for an .xyz domain to buy, and it is only 1.99 for the first year through GoDaddy so that could be a big reason! And that was with a one word popular name which on other domains typically has an upcharge or is already taken.

[Flinch]

"https://silicon.nyc/xyz-domain-problems-spam/"

Here's a blurb about the .xyz issue:

"Let’s explore the key issues with the .xyz extension in detail:

Association with spam and fraudulent activity
Many hosting companies and email providers mark emails sent from .xyz domains as potential spam, which can lead to decreased deliverability and a lower chance of reaching potential customers. Additionally, .xyz domains are often used by cybercriminals to create phishing sites and spread malware, which can harm the reputation of businesses that use them.

Lack of recognition and trust
The .xyz extension is not widely recognized or trusted by customers and other businesses. Many people may view a website with a .xyz domain as less credible or professional, which can negatively impact the perceived value of a business. This can make it harder for startups to establish trust with potential customers and partners, making it more difficult to grow and succeed.

Increased security threats
.xyz domains are more vulnerable to security threats like ransomware. Microsoft defender for cloud is one of the examples which marks .xyz files as potential ransomware and impacts the business’s reputation.

Silent but very real problems for startups
Many startups may not be aware that their customers are not receiving their emails due to the use of .xyz domains, which can lead to lost business opportunities and revenue. This silent killer can make the .xyz extension extremely dangerous for any project looking to grow. Here is a case of why it can be so costly to build on xyz.

Since launch in 2014 .XYZ domains have taken off and today it’s a domain of choice by blockchain companies, scammers, and hackers. You can read more about “why hackers love .xyz and other new top-level domains.” – F Secure"

I keep reading about the 'ancient forum software' that Paceline is hosted on. So how much does new forum software cost? Issues migrating to new software?

[rice rocket]

Originally Posted by Flinch

I keep reading about the 'ancient forum software' that Paceline is hosted on. So how much does new forum software cost? Issues migrating to new software?

It's cheap or free. $200/year at most, $0 otherwise.

It's really more about finding someone to donate their time. I ran about half a dozen forums through my 20s, I don't anymore because of time constraints.

[AJosiahK]

I have a few accounts who use .XYZ re emails. Im curious as well about all this

[jimoots]

Originally Posted by Flinch

I keep reading about the 'ancient forum software' that Paceline is hosted on. So how much does new forum software cost? Issues migrating to new software?

Like with anything, there are a number of different providers of forum software and all do things a little differently.

This forum is run on a software called Vbulliten. We are on version 3.8.7 - over 10 years old - with vBulliten now well into version 6.

The easiest path forward is an upgrade to version six, however over that time the 'way things work' (i.e. storing and accessing data) within vBulliten software has changed.

That means you don't just click a button and presto, you're on version 6. It's a bit of a process to go from where we are to the current day.

Migrating this software to another platform adds further challenges, as the way data is stored by vbulliten will almost certainly be done differently, and require careful migration. Add to that, the way another platform works will function differently... and given how resistant to change some folk around here are, I imagine that would present headaches for users to!

The other part of migrating to another forum software is that it is unlikely that you could migrate straight from VB3 to the current version of another provider. There are often migration tools that assist in lining up databases, but in my experience they support the newer versions of software. So you'd likely have to go VB3 - > VB6 -> Something else.

All of the above is a bit of a plain english simplification, but just noting that the process takes time and above all a desire to undertake the change.

Originally Posted by rice rocket

It's cheap or free. $200/year at most, $0 otherwise.

It's really more about finding someone to donate their time. I ran about half a dozen forums through my 20s, I don't anymore because of time constraints.

Yep this is pretty much the cost of the software, not much.

The other additional, and more significant, cost is hosting (i.e. the computing power to run and data storage for the site) but that is independent of what forum version / platform we run.

Vbulliten blurs the lines a bit with their hosted solution which turns forum into a SaaS product with a monthly cost, but then you're not up for supplying your own hosting and you don't have to sweat a lot of the things you do when you're running your own sever and software..

[mtbmoose]

Have any of the admins asked if the folks at vBulletin would upgrade this Paceline instance to current under a one-time contract? If so, and the cost is reasonable, then the membership could be polled to see if they’d cover the cost.

Certainly the developers of vBulletin could handle the conversion much more efficiently than any part time (cycling enthusiast) admin. It might also be worth asking if the vBulletin folks would consider migrating the Paceline instance to the hosted platform, which would keep the version current while removing some workload from the admins. The hosted versions don’t look horribly expensive.

Just thinking out loud here.

[OtayBW]

Originally Posted by jimoots

Like with anything, there are a number of different providers of forum software and all do things a little differently.

This forum is run on a software called Vbulliten. We are on version 3.8.7 - over 10 years old - with vBulliten now well into version 6.

The easiest path forward is an upgrade to version six, however over that time the 'way things work' (i.e. storing and accessing data) within vBulliten software has changed.

That means you don't just click a button and presto, you're on version 6. It's a bit of a process to go from where we are to the current day.

Migrating this software to another platform adds further challenges, as the way data is stored by vbulliten will almost certainly be done differently, and require careful migration. Add to that, the way another platform works will function differently... and given how resistant to change some folk around here are, I imagine that would present headaches for users to!

The other part of migrating to another forum software is that it is unlikely that you could migrate straight from VB3 to the current version of another provider. There are often migration tools that assist in lining up databases, but in my experience they support the newer versions of software. So you'd likely have to go VB3 - > VB6 -> Something else.

All of the above is a bit of a plain english simplification, but just noting that the process takes time and above all a desire to undertake the change.



Yep this is pretty much the cost of the software, not much.

The other additional, and more significant, cost is hosting (i.e. the computing power to run and data storage for the site) but that is independent of what forum version / platform we run.

Vbulliten blurs the lines a bit with their hosted solution which turns forum into a SaaS product with a monthly cost, but then you're not up for supplying your own hosting and you don't have to sweat a lot of the things you do when you're running your own sever and software..

Good info.

[Flinch]

Originally Posted by jimoots

Like with anything, there are a number of different providers of forum software and all do things a little differently.

This forum is run on a software called Vbulliten. We are on version 3.8.7 - over 10 years old - with vBulliten now well into version 6.

The easiest path forward is an upgrade to version six, however over that time the 'way things work' (i.e. storing and accessing data) within vBulliten software has changed.

That means you don't just click a button and presto, you're on version 6. It's a bit of a process to go from where we are to the current day.

Migrating this software to another platform adds further challenges, as the way data is stored by vbulliten will almost certainly be done differently, and require careful migration. Add to that, the way another platform works will function differently... and given how resistant to change some folk around here are, I imagine that would present headaches for users to!

The other part of migrating to another forum software is that it is unlikely that you could migrate straight from VB3 to the current version of another provider. There are often migration tools that assist in lining up databases, but in my experience they support the newer versions of software. So you'd likely have to go VB3 - > VB6 -> Something else.

All of the above is a bit of a plain english simplification, but just noting that the process takes time and above all a desire to undertake the change.

I sent a PM to AS on the subject of migration to MyBB (for example, there are other forum platforms). MyBB is an open source forum platform, and supports auto migration from VB3x . However, as an experienced software migration fool (no forums, large databases), I know there are always issues. However, issues exist to be overcome.

One way to do it is a background test migration of static data, offline to users while the old forum continues unhindered, with the goal of migrating what is important to users, and migrating the other data a bit later.

One common method is to migrate everything that is required to make the data system functional, and later catch up on migrating the odd tidbits that are nice but not critical. This allows the migration team to work out the quirky bugs (there are always quirks), and get the process procedures and techniques worked out without affecting the real online forum. 90% success with 10% effort.

As an example, I once migrated a major set of databases (tens of millions of records) into a master data set with the goal of getting all of the old and static data in and verified/validated, forming the basis for going on-line. When the DB went live, we quickly migrated newer data (that small amount of data entered into the old databases after the static dump). Sounds less complicated than it was - ha!

Anyway, I think that the migration decision 'math' might be: (Continuing forum pain ) < (migration pain, minus future happy times ). My 2 cents.

[benb]

This site isn't financial data or anything with legal or HIPAA requirements.

Another option is just to migrate to something new and just backfill history into the new system as possible with a relatively loose approach when things go wrong.

If this is already self hosted I'd want to go for the open source option. Going to the open source option would make it a lot easier for members to actually help out.

I am curious if vBulletin kept providing security updates for such an old version of the software? It looks like it was EOLd in 2017.

It is unfortunate they don't handle migration better. But I would suspect a lot of that is they let site owners mess around in the DB too much over the years.

[Flinch]

Originally Posted by benb

I am curious if vBulletin kept providing security updates for such an old version of the software? It looks like it was EOLd in 2017.

FWIW: From a post I saw dated two years ago, VB stated that 3.8 was not supported any longer, and that it would not release the software to public domain. BUT, I am not in the know re this forum, so take my comments with a grain of sodium chloride.

[downtube42]

Perception is what matters, right?

.xyz doesn't mean anything at all. I guess when it became available, some scammers snatched up legit domain names but with .xyz instead of .com or .org. Bad impression created. More than anything, else, the reaction to that impression damaged the value of .xyz.

To paraphrase, .xyz isn't bad, they just use it that way.

This is why we can't have nice things.

[AngryScientist]

For info:

The number of guests viewing the forum is now down significantly from it's peak of about 5000 during the day a month or so ago to about 500.

I have re-oped the ability to view general discussion to non-registered users.

I also approved a bunch of new members today. Sorry for the delay in that new folks.

[paredown]

I don't know forum software at all, but I know that with my old home at Road Bike Review-- they did successive upgrades that killed most of the picture links in old threads, so that any linked images that were on their servers were lost forever. This was one of the reasons why I stopped posting there.

You can still click on links over there and get whole threads of people dealing with complicated issues or classic bikes where a good deal of time was put in to document and discuss--and all the images are all gone. (This is over and above the debacle of the so-called "free" sites hosting images that also disappeared or have been replaced by low-res crap with their logo plastered on them...)

So I'm assuming that these are the sorts of complications involved, which may or may not be amenable to repair.

(I have not done any database migration since the early 2000s--and I know that it was always the hardest part of any system-wide upgrades--there was always some group or other running "critical" programs on DB3 that we had to fight to make accessible etc...)