SBT GRVL Runs Afoul of Local Ranchers & Residents in Colorado

[verticaldoug]

I understand both sides of the coin here. If the race organizers can find a way to riders and spectators to stop urinating on everything, and then find a way to provide parking at the spots where spectators congregate year after year, you have probably reduced 90% of the problem.

I often find it is just not during the event, but afterwards you find out how much damage the illegal parking did to the area.

The Ranchers and Land owners are a different matter. More outreach is definitely needed. The focus on the event on how much money is pumped into steam boat so something else needs to dangled as a treat.

In many cases, the most hostile landowner is often a wealthy transplant. They seem to bring city entitlement with them. (This is my yard get off)

But this is just not a cycling event issue. You can just look at all the problems Jeremy Clarkson's Diddly Squat Farm has caused in the rural Chipping Norton, Cotswolds. Sudden Instagram crowds are generally the worst and most clueless.

As far as I can tell, everywhere with Tourists is talking about the scrouge of overtourism post Pandemic. I think people forgot how to behave.

[AngryScientist]

It does seem like the biggest gripes would be easy enough to rectify.

With regard to trash, don't most good events like this include a comprehensive "sweep" crew that cleans up the course behind the last riders?

Frequent enough trailer mounted porta-johns. Read the participants the riot act before the event and in event prep emails: "dont piss anywhere outdoors; if we catch you, or anyone catches you, you're dq'd"

Similar with parking. Park in designated lots only, ride your bike to the start or wherever you need to go.

There will always be jerks in the field, but it's on the organizers to set the event up for success. If participants pay a hefty $$ for entrance, and there are a lack of facilities for example, you're going to have people saying screw it and peeing on someone's lawn.

[verticaldoug]

If you really want to experience people using your property as a toilet, you should visit the Nottinghill Carnival last Bank Holiday in August. It's horrid to say the least.

[Alistair]

Originally Posted by November Dave

Paul, who promoted the Gloucester cross race forever, eventually lost use of the venue because the race "trashed" the grounds every year.

Sadly, we're running into the same for our local race (which my team hosts and .RJ here is one of the main organizers). The race has been held at the same park for 25+ years now, but park management is increasingly hostile to the grass damage (from the racing, not parking, and which we repair). The race is the first weekend in December - very few park users that time of year.

[glepore]

The organizer has already taken some of these steps-people breaking the the behavior (no bathroom breaks on private land) rules can be reported by anyone and potentially dq'd. They also will eliminate 2 way traffic (and enforce a yellow line rule?).
They need motos or something, but that would ruin the "spirit of gravel" whatever that is now that its a major financial thing...

[gravelreformist]

I happen to be working in Colorado now and driving on many of these ranch roads every day. I'd actually read this article prior to seeing it posted here.

While there are absolutely some valid complaints the overall tone the ranchers strike is that article is of the ultimate entitled NIMBY'er. They are worried that a large cycling event doesn't align with the county's 'agrarian values' which I find to hold exactly zero water. Times and places change. The ranchers are on land that was stolen from people who had lived on that land for generations before them. The gravel roads are public and people have the right to use them. (The private roads in this race do not appear to be part of the complaints - the landowner is extensively quoted in the article).

An all-day road closure impacts people who live on it pretty much equally whether they live in a large city, small town, or mountain canyon. The fact that there are plenty of other roads in the area doesn't help much if YOUR road is closed all day. So again, I find that argument entirely pointless.

As someone who lives in a rural area I think it's pretty much cultural that many of those people simply don't want the area to change in any way - from the way that they have experienced it. They are largely incapable of having the kind of introspection necessary to realize that their experience only exists because they pushed someone else out.

[.RJ]

Originally Posted by Bruce K

I was curious if anyone would bring up the Gloucester GP

We are running into similar issues with the race my team organizes in a local park.

Its a toss up on whether we'll be able to come back this year, or if we can come back we are definitely getting relegated to a different area of the park and can we put on the same quality of event? Its not easy and nothing is guaranteed.

And then all of the local crit races we used to have were shut out by property owners or costs.

[spoonrobot]

Originally Posted by gravelreformist

I happen to be working in Colorado now and driving on many of these ranch roads every day. I'd actually read this article prior to seeing it posted here.

What do you estimate the common road width for these ranch roads? In rural Georgia the majority of unpaved roads are 1.5 lanes wide or less (figure around 15 feet wide) with a great many barely 10 feet. This precludes two way bicycle traffic for most gravel events. Other than the bathroom issue the two way sections of the SBT event seemed the most objectionable.

[benb]

Originally Posted by November Dave

Paul, who promoted the Gloucester cross race forever, eventually lost use of the venue because the race "trashed" the grounds every year. He was so diligent about cleaning up and landscaping that the park was always left in better shape than before the race began, but there you go. Mostly I think it was that locals didn't like having their use of the park compromised for a weekend.

I think that seems mandatory that remediation is done AFTER the race.

The one cross race I once helped out on (which doesn't seem to be a club thing anymore and is now taken over by someone else) we had a massive cleanup day before the race.

So if you considered the trash or sticks or whatever that was removed from the course to make for better/safer racing than we left the course in better shape.

But if you factored in that no work happened after the race (and rain/mud was involved) and consider that no raking of damage was done, no topsoil was restored, and no destroyed grass was replanted then we left a bunch of damage for the city to restore in the spring.

If it's a fall cross race in NE you can't really restore the damage to landscaping till the spring, locals are walking through there all winter getting angry seeing the damage and since it takes so long to restore they might not realize that the race organizer was responsible for the eventual repair.

Also probably a case that the city didn't really see much benefit and everyone just showed up and then left.

[gravelreformist]

Originally Posted by spoonrobot

What do you estimate the common road width for these ranch roads? In rural Georgia the majority of unpaved roads are 1.5 lanes wide or less (figure around 15 feet wide) with a great many barely 10 feet. This precludes two way bicycle traffic for most gravel events. Other than the bathroom issue the two way sections of the SBT event seemed the most objectionable.

Mostly the width of a normal two lane western road without a shoulder. I'd say they are generally wider than a typical eastern paved back-road without lane markings. Certainly wider than most of our eastern gravel roads.

Two-way traffic is almost always a bad idea in large bike races or events though. They should do away with that.

[phishrabbi]

Originally Posted by spoonrobot

What do you estimate the common road width for these ranch roads? In rural Georgia the majority of unpaved roads are 1.5 lanes wide or less (figure around 15 feet wide) with a great many barely 10 feet. This precludes two way bicycle traffic for most gravel events. Other than the bathroom issue the two way sections of the SBT event seemed the most objectionable.

I rode a bunch of these roads last summer about a week before the race, most of them are legitimately wide enough for two cars to pass one another. Much of the little traffic there is out there is farm equipment, and thus much wider.

the gravel roads around Steamboat are the nicest I've ever ridden, like this

[November Dave]

Originally Posted by Alistair

Sadly, we're running into the same for our local race (which my team hosts and .RJ here is one of the main organizers). The race has been held at the same park for 25+ years now, but park management is increasingly hostile to the grass damage (from the racing, not parking, and which we repair). The race is the first weekend in December - very few park users that time of year.

Capital Cross? Just running through the mental list of Super8 races I used to do.

When I did the Lost River race I remember (but wish I could forget) some guy b--ching about "why do you make us drive out to the boonies to do this race? Someone should just* put a race on MacArthur and use Mountain Gate and Angler's Hill." For those not intimately familiar with DC/Bethesda/Montgomery County (I lived in Bethesda at the time), this is 1) yes indeed an absolute hotbed of cycling and a great area to ride a bike and 2) full of multimillion dollar homes (we were the beggars on the block) and perhaps the global epicenter of Type A entitlement. The freaking audacity that someone claimed I was "making" him do anything and that it was anything other than a laughable fantasy that a race could be held in that place is burned in my brain.

I think Gloucester actually had landscaping done immediately post-race, as it's pretty early in the season. But in any case yes a tenuous mix of locals who see only downside (and may be justified in it) plus participants who do stupid stuff. When I talked to him about it Paul was mostly concerned about the landscaping complaint, but it might have been flavored by the context of that CX Nationals in TX where the "heritage trees" were impacted, and that was a huge topic.

*definitely my least favorite phrase ever - a perfect distillation of entitlement, laziness, and ignorance

[.RJ]

Originally Posted by benb

But if you factored in that no work happened after the race (and rain/mud was involved) and consider that no raking of damage was done, no topsoil was restored, and no destroyed grass was replanted then we left a bunch of damage for the city to restore in the spring.

Even if you are able to fix it - removing ruts, seed, hay - its still going to look like **** for a month if the weather is mild - or until spring time like you said if not. And if the promoter is paying professional landscapers that clobbers any profit the race made, so its likely volunteer work and you get what you pay for.

In the case of our race, the areas we tear up also get torn up from being trampled all year round but that doesnt really matter to the park management when they see the aftermath.

[benb]

Obviously a cross race is different than Gravel as it seems like the Gravel race doesn't really do any meaningful damage to the course.

I think one thing that is always lost with the "but economic benefits" is that the race is only there providing those benefits a day or two. The local economy is running year round.

Some place like Gloucester ($80k median household income/$800k median home price) or any of the other towns in MA has a solid enough economy a 1 day event doesn't move the needle enough to negate people being upset. MA towns and cities had no issues rejecting much bigger events that would have brought in orders of magnitude more money (E.x. Indy Car and the Olympics). Some of these towns get described as having blue collar character but that's sometimes misleading.

The county where SBT is could be totally different but if you're trying to go into an area with a booming economy you need to provide a massive massive boost to move the needle.

[zap]

Originally Posted by November Dave

Someone should just* put a race on MacArthur and use Mountain Gate and Angler's Hill." For those not intimately familiar with DC/Bethesda/Montgomery County (I lived in Bethesda at the time), this is 1) yes indeed an absolute hotbed of cycling and a great area to ride a bike and 2) full of multimillion dollar homes (we were the beggars on the block) and perhaps the global epicenter of Type A entitlement.

Ha, my old stomping grounds. Did hill repeats on Mountain Gate.

I lived in Potomac and christ my neighbors were the most unpleasant angry people ever. At one time there was a lot of pressure put on MoCo police to stop all group rides going through Potomac. If I'm not mistaken the Saturday morning Bicycle Place ride was stopped at Anglers Inn.