Rim vs. disc - a frame build quarrel

[p nut]

Originally Posted by DaveS

While I'd prefer to rim brakes, I also tend to keep bikes for >10 years and I'm concerned that wheels / gruppos will be limited in the future.

Decisions, decisions...

It’s like some of you are trying to look for excuses NOT to buy new bikes on a regular bases. What has this place come to?

[Blown Reek]

Originally Posted by mtechnica

Basically every road bike and gravel bike sold now is the TA 12mm standard and there are more/better rims to choose from. Also road tubeless is the future. When was the last time you saw a tube in a car. Tubes are stupid.

Just wait until Road Boost trickles down to normal road bikes (not just gravel and e-bikes), and all of the "future proof" bikes of today are now obsolete. As for road tubeless, I'll accept that as "the future" when tubulars are no longer manufactured. Not everyone wants to ride a 28mm tire (much less something like a 32 or 38!) at 60 psi. Heck, wasn't there some big race where someone won on Specialized clinchers and tubes? You want to ride off road? Get a mountain bike. Gravel is for people who can't hack it as road riders.

But just like purple anodizing came and went in the 90s, it's back again. Just wait for that pendulum to swing back, and you'll realize "nothing" is the future.

[AngryScientist]

Originally Posted by .RJ

That list is awful short. Hed, Boyd, Easton and a few others have dropped out. .

is this true?

i thought boyd confirmed that they will continue to offer a rim brake rim. has HED discontinued the belgium+ rim?

This is from the HED website:

Belgium R
$165 / RIM
When it comes to wheel building, few rims carry as much prestige as the HED Belgium alloy rims. From the introduction of the Belgium C2 to the Belgium Plus, this rim has made its name on quality, becoming the go-to choice of wheel builders worldwide.

The Belgium R is the next iteration of the HED Belgium Plus, with a 25mm (“Plus”) rim width, adding increased tire volume, a smoother ride quality and improved rolling speed to any hub set, spokes and bike you’re building up.

FEATURES
Disc brake and rim brake options available
Spoke hole count options of 24H, 28H, 32H
Tubeless Compatible
Welded Seam

And this from the Boyd blog

NEW 2021 Altamont Rim Brake

Yes! We are still dedicated to rim brakes, in fact we are probably the only wheel company out there who just opened up new tooling on a brand new version of the Altamont rim brake rims.

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by Tychom

I'm having a frame built currently that's steel, rim brake with a Ritchey carbon fork that's designed around a 30mm tyre, 32 at a push (with the right calipers). I decided against ever larger tyres and mid-reach as then there's other compromises to be made (geometry, fewer component choices)

Originally Posted by Tychom

But this is a dedicated summer bike at the family house in the mountains. Mostly good weather, fully mechanical & low maintenance, and keeping price/weight reasonable. Rim continues to be IMO a good choice there and I've plenty of spare parts in the bin.

However if I was having a similar bike built up for home (4 seasons with plenty of wet northern European months) then at this point I would have it built with disc brakes. The braking on my gravel bike with GRX hydraulic is noticeably nicer particularly in the wet than the braking on my rim brake bikes, smoother/less effort/more predictable. So I want that available on all my wet-weather rides. And there's lots of good wheel choices for larger tyres.

That's a round-a-bout way of saying it depends on the weather you're cycling in for me.

This is intriguing. I tried to find more information on this but couldn’t. You’re saying this fork fits a true “30” with direct mount rim brakes?

[Tychom]

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

[B]

This is intriguing. I tried to find more information on this but couldn’t. You’re saying this fork fits a true “30” with direct mount rim brakes?

Not direct-mount, the Ritchey fork is for a traditional brake caliper. But I can confirm the clearances: https://forums.thepaceline.net/showt...15#post2914315.

I'm not sure it's a given that direct-mount brakes have more clearance. Certainly reports are good for the direct-mount EE-brakes but for others from Campagnolo, Shimano I'm less certain. Perhaps there's success stories out there.

If going direct-mount with a carbon fork there's not really many options - maybe replacement forks from Trek/Specialized if you've access to a dealer, otherwise there only seems to be one aftermarket direct-mount fork available (in use by Standert, Barco, Stelbel) but that is officially for 28's so doesnt sound so appealing.

[mtechnica]

Originally Posted by Blown Reek

Just wait until Road Boost trickles down to normal road bikes (not just gravel and e-bikes), and all of the "future proof" bikes of today are now obsolete. As for road tubeless, I'll accept that as "the future" when tubulars are no longer manufactured. Not everyone wants to ride a 28mm tire (much less something like a 32 or 38!) at 60 psi. Heck, wasn't there some big race where someone won on Specialized clinchers and tubes? You want to ride off road? Get a mountain bike. Gravel is for people who can't hack it as road riders.

But just like purple anodizing came and went in the 90s, it's back again. Just wait for that pendulum to swing back, and you'll realize "nothing" is the future.

I’m not saying it will never change but road boost is not really a thing. Gravel bikes are basically all 142. The industry seems to have settled on this for now as 12 speed works on 142 and 13 speed probably can too. Also I have 25c tubeless tires at 85psi and they are fine so I don’t know what you’re talking about. Also I have a gravel bike as well as a mountain bike and they’re both tubeless and I ride both of them so again I don’t know what you’re talking about. You just sound mad for some reason.

[Ozz]

Have you picked a builder yet?

You said you want to go on 75-100 mile rides and not feel beat...lots of factors go into meeting that criteria...least of all the type of brakes. Go fast or cruising? Loaded panniers, or just what fits in your pockets? All weather or just sunny days? Do you need to fit fenders? I think you first need to take an honest look at the type of riding you expect to do and that will guide you.

Do you maintain your own bikes or take them to a shop? I don't know anything about maintaining disc brakes, but rim brakes are pretty idiot proof (perfect for me).

How many miles do you ride each year? I have 2 custom bikes, each 15+ yrs old (rim brakes) and have had 3-4 sets of wheels that I have rotated thru them. I just had one set rebuilt and figure it will be good for another 10+ years. I don't worry too much about obsolescence keeping me from riding...as long as they still make 700c tires and brake pads I should be good.

Also, how long do you plan to keep the bike? If resale value is important, maybe you want the latest "standards" to maintain value.

If I was doing my first custom bike, and wanted one for long distance comfy rides I would find a builder (Hampsten or Kirk would be top of my list)....if I was planning on keeping it "forever" I would get Ti or Steel...and go with rim brakes and 28c tires.....but that is just me.

[DaveS]

Originally Posted by p nut

It’s like some of you are trying to look for excuses NOT to buy new bikes on a regular bases. What has this place come to?

I know you're kidding, but it pains me a bit every time a custom that I've loved gets replaced! Not enough to not replace it of course...

[.RJ]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

is this true?

i thought boyd confirmed that they will continue to offer a rim brake rim. has HED discontinued the belgium+ rim?

From following the November blog, it seems like supply and availability is pretty spotty, but that could be a covid thing and not a conscious decision by them.

Still, options getting thinner and its only going to get worse - maybe not tomorrow but if you keep this bike 5+ years and want a new grouppo whats that going to look like?

[Tychom]

Silver rims were in slim supply even prior to the pandemic and now almost nowhere to be seen in many drillings. I've started stocking up whatever I can find for those bikes I've no intention of letting go of.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[Matt92037]

I just put a deposit down on a custom frame and plan on going with rim brakes this time around.

Anybody here that thinks the current state of road bike discs will be a standard for more than a few years is in for a surprise. As mentioned above road boost axle spacing is out there and will drive changes in the chainline. I also dont think road bike disc calipers and rotors are anywhere near there final state at this point.

Road bikers have had it incredibly good when it comes to “standards”. I am now getting the feeling that road bikers get to experience short lived standards that us mountain bikers have been dealing with for a while. I will say this, all the changes in the MTB world, WORTH IT!

[mtechnica]

Road boost is just a rear MTB hub and a front MTB hub with smaller end caps, so it’s already an established standard and there’s no real reason on the horizon to use it for a pure road bike. Also FYI you guys with thru axles most of the time you can convert the hubs to one thing or another anyways so chill the F out lmao.

[Big Dan]

Do you have a big investment in rim brake wheels?
I do.

[robt57]

QR is 1/2 measure...?

I have a few of each disc QR and TA. My 29er with QR disc been perfectly useful an reliable for over a decade.

Do I like the slim streamlined looks of flat mounts being minimalist aesthetically. For sure..

In fact I just bought another set of xtr tubulars with a QR rear for my 2015 made Strong All Road. I'll use the front TA wheel with an adapter off other bike.

The case for disc is if you wanna run 700 & 650b. Something I do on my QR Disc Strong All Road since new. For a new build IMO the strongest consideration. Just plan out your tire plans and BB drop going forward with reasonable scrutiny...

[Greenlikeme]

Love the discussion!
I do have a builder picked out but they are slammed with orders (like most builders which is great news) and direct mount takes a lot of additional work. I’d rather invest in other features of the difference is negligible.
Traditional center mounts will also be easier to find in the future.

In terms of “standards” - I’ve had my current road bike for 10 years. 3 wheelsets and 2 groups. I keep things for a while.

It seems like 32c is pushing most calipers. Does anyone have experience with 30c on DA or EE regular mount brakes?