Not that OT: Reviewing products

[fiamme red]

First CyclingTips post ever sponsored by Walmart: https://cyclingtips.com/2019/06/from...-from-walmart/.

[pasadena]

Originally Posted by fiamme red

First CyclingTips post ever sponsored by Walmart: https://cyclingtips.com/2019/06/from...-from-walmart/.

literally the first words in the CT article

This content is brought to you in partnership with Viathon Bicycles.
Find out more about our sponsored content policies here.

how much more clear do they need to be that this is sponsored content?

[makoti]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

So it may sounds like reviewer receives no material benefit, but here's the catch: If a reviewer produces too many negative reviews, the manufacturers will stop loaning them equipment. Without equipment to review, these reviewers sill simply stop producing reviews. Therefore, only those reviewers who tend to give positive reviews will be able to continue doing reviews.

Yes, it's an imperfect system, to be sure. And why would you send stuff to someone who does nothing but trash your stuff? But guys do manage to pull off the balancing act, the better ones, anyway. There are some good reviewers in all fields who manage to do it right. Give credit where is it due & call out a company, if warranted.

Originally Posted by pasadena

Really, he should donate all of it to cycling programs but that's just my opinion.

That was one of my suggestions. Use & donate. Review more, get to try more. Seems like a good deal to me.

[ibis]

When I was sending out bikes, pedals, apparel, etc..to magazines and websites I would let them keep (or pass on to a buddy) everything but complete bikes. Those they had for a predetermined time and had to send back.

Even though I had advertising contracts with some of them (not all) it did not guarantee a favorable review. It was tough to get magazine cover's, and that was always the goal. I was always pitching head-to-head contests with Specialized and Trek and Cannondale and so on. I was always told that bigger ad budgets do not guarantee covers, but the writing was on the wall. I had it out with RBA once over this issue.

The worst part of this process is that once you are known as "that guy" for a particular company...everyone with their cobbled together website would show up at Interbike pretending to be media in order to get free gear.

[Ronsonic]

Back in the day, when nut books were all printed matter, the thing that skewed reviews more than anything else was the fact that most reviewers aspired to jobs in somebody's marketing department and wrote accordingly. Sure, free product that they could keep, sell or at least audition for a year or two was a perk, but the prospect of an industry job was the big deal.

I'm sure the same or similar dynamic still applies now, with the added option of selling themselves as an "influencer." But, I'm old and not sure how all that works out.

[Charles M]

I can tell you that the answer you're asking for is just a bird's nest of speculation (not all off-base).

So many "reputable sights" are straight-up PAY FOR PLAY now that getting a straight answer from a group of forum folks will be nearly impossible (as much uninformed as informed).

I would also say that nearly all (cycling/Moto) reviewers keep product of some form or other. Nearly nobody takes back clothes/shoes/helmets, very few take back wheels, most take back bikes. BUT NOT ALL.

I've been doing this (without Pez covering even my own expenses) for nearly 20 years and have seen a hundred+ late-teen/early 20-something reviewers come and go like mayflies... (from some of the largest publications) Lots with little more industry or manufacturing experience than what they also read in forums.

That's not to say at all that you shouldn't bring up the subject, but I would ask this one question... Before you speculate on the purity of someone's writing, should you not have evidence that what they're saying is inaccurate?

Nobody writes with 100% purity. Nobody.
Even Consumer reports have favorite brands (that have always provided them product and support). People speak to people... The auto and Moto mags get wined and dinned to exceptional levels.

Anyone wanting to troll (and I DO NOT THINK THIS IS THE CASE HERE), regardless of how little they know about the writer or the products, can claim "taint"... It's such an easy stone to throw, and very frankly it can be accurate given how MASSIVELY screwed up the media is now (with major publications prioritizing "volume" and "impact" over accuracy).

I can't speak for anyone but myself (I can't even speak for other reviewers at Pez, because we have a couple of people that really have no business writing reviews given their lack of technical understanding), so I just continue to produce what I think is accurate info about the products I get the chance to handle. I genuinely don't care to try and meet the entire world's moral benchmark because I think it a fool's task.

ALSO, not talking to friends I've had in the industry for a couple of decades just isn't going to happen... But I think it's given me access to a lot more information rather than less. I think it a net benefit.

Put more simply, I do what I can and I hope it gives people a better look at the subject at hand. I also know a few other long term tech guys that are in the same boat.

Makoti, thanks for bringing it up. I don't mind at all and nobody else that reviews kit honestly should mind either...

[Matthew]

If you've got a Baum, IF, or a Firefly in a 55 I will review the heck out of it completely unbiased. I promise to send them back.

[Tickdoc]

Wouldn't it be fun to read of proof that Consumer reports has been in bed with Toyota all along?

Back on topic though, I feel that gear reviews are not near as biased as bike reviews. There are just too many factors regarding bike reviews that make them impossibly unreliable and unbiased. I look back on old RoadBikeAction magazine reviews of bikes I used to lust after and reading them now is almost comical. You can cut and paste all the superlatives and apply them to almost any of the reviews.

You want to know which hiking boots are best? Go to Yellowstone or Yosemite and ask some of the backcountry guides. Those guys aren't paid to wear the gear they use (Usually) and they will tell you straight up what works.

[Charles M]

Tick, One of the few things that I've done for the past 15 years or so is run the same wheels, tires, tire pressures and saddle on everything... Disc Brakes (and now 12 speed and funky front end gearing) toss a monkey wrench in that to some degree, but I at least try and give the platform some repeatability... (now everything runs on 303 and 303 disc).

But even with that, I'm short of the equipment to really dig into flex and Data acquisition... I can do that for moto, but dont have high enough resolution for Bikes.

Originally Posted by Matthew

If you've got a Baum, IF, or a Firefly in a 55 I will review the heck out of it completely unbiased. I promise to send them back.

You're a digit too big! Everything here is 54.

[Tickdoc]

Originally Posted by Charles M

You're a digit too big! Everything here is 54.

Oh, I can make that work!

[19wisconsin64]

delete post

[makoti]

It really isn't that hard, I guess.
From Slowtwitch:

"In way of disclosure, I pestered these folks, stalked them really, to become a Slowtwitch partner. They said yes. Road tubeless, like disc brakes, like stationary training platforms, like electronic shifting, like gravel, among others, are themes that animate me, and are emblematic of where the market is going. This is what you have read here, and will read forward going, partnerships or not. Nevertheless, because of my high praise for this brand it’s important I disclose this. Read more from Schwalbe here if you want to investigate further."

[mhespenheide]

Originally Posted by Tickdoc

You want to know which hiking boots are best? Go to Yellowstone or Yosemite and ask some of the backcountry guides. Those guys aren't paid to wear the gear they use (Usually) and they will tell you straight up what works.

That's a bad counter-example, though...

As someone who leads backpacking trips as part of my job, I have access to pro deals on some brands of boots and not others. If I choose to buy through that pro deal (typically ~40% off list price), I'm explicitly told to try not to disclose my discount and instead offer whatever positive comments I can on the gear. And, like the aforementioned bike reviewers trying to get into the game, the starting pay for backcountry guides is so little that you basically have to go with the pro deals on gear.

I would guess that that type of game is played in every field.

So we're stuck trying to look for someone like @Clean39T or @Ryun who have the breadth of experience of a dedicated amateur and the means to dedicate himself to trying out a broad variety of bikes in order to be able to offer an unbiased opinion that's actually meaningful.

[FlashUNC]

Any review by its nature is a subjective exercise filled with all sorts of biases both conscious and unconscious.

Just find a reviewer whose sensibility seems to jive with your experiences with gear/movies/music/art/whatever and go off that.