Where is the gravel?

[Mzilliox]

Originally Posted by HTupolev

Nothing to do with lawns. Gravel varies. We've got hardpack that's smooth as glass, and we've also got roads made out of 2"+ rocks.

In the last month I've seen multiple friends' wheels get destroyed by impacts on our gravel roads. Last fall, one friend got four flats in as many miles when he tried to use supple 33mm cottons on our rough double-track roads. One of my friends tries to avoid skinny-tire-related issues by running ~35mm Marathon Plus Tours pumped stiff; it works, but their weight and rolling resistance is tremendous, and the ride quality poor.

On my 2.1" Rat Trap Pass ELs, I've never damaged a rim and I've never had to to stop on gravel to fix a flat. At a little over 400g they're not particularly heavy, and thanks to the width and suppleness, even at gravel riding pressures they're reasonably firm and fast on pavement. Certainly a lot faster than those 35mm Marathon Plus Tours!

As for wanting an MTB for anything that 33s can't handle, that makes little sense to me. Roads can be very rough without being particularly technical.

I am sure this is true, Im glad i dont need such fat tires on my roads. id like to try your roads some time, sounds weird riding on chunks, do you ever fall on em?. Surely situations like your roads are not common, and the OP was talking about how common these bikes are becoming overall.

[benb]

Originally Posted by Mzilliox

i reread the initial post. most people with gravel bikes dont need a gravel bike or even fat tires for what they are doing. theyd be fine with a bike that clears a good 28 or 30. they just have it anyway. like most people dont need an suv for their 4 person family, a wagon would be so much better for the job, but well, its available and loan rates are just so good right now and somehow fuel prices remain constant.

i have been spouting long and hard about 700cc 40mm tires. i find them awful. i find i can do 98 percent of what a 40 can do with 33s. some people cant, and thats ok, they get dedicated gravel bikes with the fattest tires one can ride without floating away.

would you say your little dirt roads would be better ridden with 33s? could you go faster or climb easier? i was able to ride some of the dirt around me on 25s and 28s, but most i couldnt. Its not that 25mm tires cant ride on dirt or gravel from a durability perspective, its traction i was missing. trust me, you cant ride up my roads on your 25s. you just cant.
33 knobbies or 35 file treads get me up those bits. 38 might go up even easier, but it turds on the pavement, and i dont ride slow on pavement. anything more hectic than what i can do on my 33-35s and id probably want a mtn bike.

now get off my lawn

Lots of truth here. I don't know where I think the sweet spot is. I need to try a really good 35.

I ran 38s for a couple years. They definitely feel slow on pavement, and I had some fast/racy 38s.

I have 32s on that bike now. It's way better on the road, it feels like it gives up very little vs a 25 or a 28 and it is a lot better than a 25 or a 28 on dirt/gravel.

But if the dirt gets loose or sandy the 32 really is vastly inferior to the 38. Hard to say. I have a couple trails I ride that would count as "gravel" in a lot of these discussions. The trail condition is variable depending on weather. If it's hard packed and dry the 32 is the better tire. If it gets loose the 32 gets real slow and requires technical skill in places to not crash. The 38 will be much better when it gets loose. But in the situation where the 38 is better, a mountain bike will be quite a bit better still.

A lot of our "mixed terrain" group rides here get really weird. There will be long sections of pavement followed by stuff where a F/S MTB is the right solution.

[Ed-B]

We have mixed surfaces here on the coast of Maine in the greater Portland area. There are some dirt roads 10 miles or so to the North and West that we can get to from our doorsteps. But there are a lot of multi use paths and trails nearby. And yes, we have some of those "sexy cottage roads" here, too.

The industry has really latched onto gravel as a new market segment, and is clearly differentiating this from the most recent definition of traditional road riding, but the reality for many if not most people is that we should be riding all-road bikes. The bike companies seem to be going after this segment now, too.

I think you really need to think about where you're actually going to ride your bike and choose the one that best fits that terrain. I need something that can handle dirt but still be fast on pavement.

For me, in my region, a good, fast 650B converted racing or sport touring bike can fill that need pretty well. That's why I picked up on 650B conversions years ago. Many of the older steel rim brake bikes will fit a 38mm 650B tire, and I had a few of these bikes. They're like a gateway drug - ride them and you might get hooked and want to go for the straight dope; a full-on randonneur or a modern high tech gravel bike. Or maybe some other kind of high-end lightweight 650B endurance bike.

The newer disc brake frames that will fit 650B wheels and 42mm slicks like a Panaracer Pari-Moto or Gravelking are great. It's relatively easy to find factory 27.5/650B wheels that will drop right into these bikes. With these wheels and tires the bike will handle paths and dirt roads while still being fast on the pavement. These bikes open up all kinds of new routes through areas that would be difficult to ride on narrow tires.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by jfranci3

https://gravelmap.com/

gravelmap.com shows very little gravel roads here in Boston Metro West area. I'm actually aware of quite a bit more gravel/dirt roads than are shown on the map. I suspect that lack mileage shown on the map for this area indicates either that this tool isn't widely used by riders around here, or that gravel road riding isn't as popular here as it is elsewhere (or maybe both).

[sparky33]

Gravel is a huge tent. I like the variety from buff to rough and choose the equipment accordingly.

Originally Posted by benb

Here in Massachusetts....
Gravel bikes or "Mixed Terrain" bikes work great on easier MTB trails where a bike with 25c tires will have trouble. When you add those into the mix you can build "Mixed terrain rides" that string together trails, dirt roads, and paved roads into really great rides that road bikes would not be fun on.

Absolutely, it's a hodge podge mostly in eastern MA.
Though driving a ways gets to long stretches of terrific dirt roads in VT/D2R2land.

Originally Posted by theboucher

It’s more of a state of mind.

Ride everything. Find adventure in your own neighborhood.

[Ed-B]

Absolutely, ride everything, it's not just gravel. "Just go out and ride bikes."

In 2015 when Cannondale announced the Slate, they had a video that captured what I find to be the spirit of mixed surface riding fun. It was all marketing, a little hokey, and there were a few mistakes on the specs and math of the wheels. But they had it.

In the following years the Slate range has gone more hardcore gravel, with knobby tires and 1x drivetrains only. I also think the Road Bike Action guys panned the bike because they foolishly tried to shred gravel turns on the slicks. And subsequent gravel victories at Kanza cemented the positioning of the Slate solely as a gravel bike. But those white prototype Slates were real mixed surface race bikes, and unfortunately I think they lost the plot.

But this video is still entertaining for me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMg3Rtj_ouU&t=62s

[BikeNY]

It all depends on your priorities! I live about 45 minutes north of NYC in the 'burbs, and I have no problem finding dirt to ride. Over the years my 'road' riding(which used to be 100% pavement) has migrated to more and more dirt and gravel. I've initially made the change mostly to limit my exposure to vehicular traffic, as it's just gotten more and more dangerous around here. I actively seek out rail trails, dirt roads, back roads, anything with no or less car traffic is good with me. I now find riding these dirt and gravel roads so much more relaxing and fun and with much better scenery! My latest 'Allroad' bike sports 650b x 60 tires, and it's my favorite by far!

It does take a bit of work to find the gravel/dirt and put a loop together, but that's part of the fun!

[verticaldoug]

I have a dogma K in London. With 28s, I ride all over- cobbles, gravel and dirt paths. On dry days, I even hit some of the trails in Surrey around Peaslake/Holmsbury. The MTB guys give me a funny look, I tell them they are overbiked. (Mud is another matter though.)

In New England area, I've ridden a lot of stuff on my old Ottrot with conti 25s.
Gravelmap is the best for scoping out roads.

As long as the roads are not freshly graded , I am generally okay unless it is Vermont where the gravel seems to be a fine sand, clay mixture when wet liked to fill up the fork and act like a brake.

[EricChanning]

Originally Posted by makoti

I ride out there all the time (well, often). The paved roads are great, and I'd think there are a lot of gravel/dirt roads out there, but I look at the gravel site in this thread & it didn't look like that much to me. A lot of short segments & one 30 mile almost loop. Are there a lot of other connected roads? The idea of doing 15 miles of pavement to hop off on a 2 mile bit of dirt seems crazy, to me.

There are a mix of short and long gravel segments in the Loudoun County area and the best approach is to create a loop that takes as many of the segments as possible. 30 to 50 mile loops are possible with long stretches of gravel. The best loops usually contain less than 20% paved surfaces throughout the ride however, the paved parts can be a nice break on occasion. The key is to focus on areas around Middleburg, Bluemont and Unison.

The routes may look a bit crazy from the top down with some zig zagging and figure 8 style routes.

Message me and I'll send you some links to loops via ridewithGPS. There's more than enough solid gravel riding within a 3 to 4 hour of ride to merit taking a gravel bike over a road bike.

[EricChanning]

Originally Posted by weiwentg

So, back to the original question. If you are in a large city proper or in its first ring suburbs, then maybe you'll usually need to drive some distance to get real gravel. Exceptions exist. It depends on how big a city we're talking about.
.

I forgot to mention the Chesapeake and Ohio Canal Towpath that ends in Washington, DC. Anyone with a gravel bike who lives in the district has probably taken the towpath at least once or should. It's crazy accessible and provides plenty of river views. 5 miles from my house.

[blindwilly]

I like this gravelmap.com. I'm relatively new to my area and it looks like there is more options than i realized. just need to cross the border into NH. i look forward to testing my limited tire clearance. thanks for all the insight

[Gummee]

Originally Posted by EricChanning

Loudoun Country, Virginia is worth the drive from DC to enjoy the gravel roads there. It has become a local destination for folks living in and around the DC area and while the roads could be experienced carefully on a road bike with 25mm/28mm tires, a proper gravel bike provides a much better experience.

The ability to escape car traffic and take in terrific scenery on 300+ gravel roads that climb, descend twist and turn has motivated folks to buy a gravel bike and be perfectly fine with the drive to get there.

For those who have become hooked, it hasn't replaced road cycling in the area but it has become a once or twice a month addition to overall experience of riding locally.

When we want longer, steeper climbs and tad more of a remote experience, we drive about an hour and a half west into West Virginia.

Wanna hear some good news? I can ride to those roads from home. ...makes for a long ride, tho.

If I drive out to The Plains or Haymarket the rides get a bit shorter.

There are 5 stretches of gravel near the house that I connect in various ways when I want anything from a quick fix to a 2hr ride.

...course, I used to ride the same roads outside Haymarket on 19c Vittorias (with little success BTW) 'back when too.' Fatter tires help with the punctures!

M

Edited to add: VDOT has a gravel road map on it's site somewhere. I changed OSes on the laptop and lost a bunch of bookmarks. If I can find it again, I'll post up.

[Gummee]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

gravelmap.com shows very little gravel roads here in Boston Metro West area. I'm actually aware of quite a bit more gravel/dirt roads than are shown on the map. I suspect that lack mileage shown on the map for this area indicates either that this tool isn't widely used by riders around here, or that gravel road riding isn't as popular here as it is elsewhere (or maybe both).

I KNOW there are more gravel roads near me that aren't listed on that map.

...and I'm not adding them!

M

[dem]

Originally Posted by jfranci3

https://gravelmap.com/

Finally got around to looking at this.. at least in the SF bay area, a solid 1/3 of the routes on this site are illegal for bicycles.

Have a care if you're using this site, depending on local conditions.

[HTupolev]

Originally Posted by Mzilliox

sounds weird riding on chunks, do you ever fall on em?.

Not very often, but it can happen. Moving slowly is a risk factor.

Most of the double-track roads aren't that bad, and even the really nasty ones aren't as obnoxious as higher-traffic heavily-washboarded stuff.

Surely situations like your roads are not common

It's a regional thing. Depends on the type of gravel roads in someone's area. Just because there's little rough gravel in your location doesn't mean there aren't places surrounded by it.

And rough stuff isn't the only place where huge clearances are useful. For instance, some gravel riders need lots of room between things on their bike because their regional mud clogs things in short order.