Is Shimano getting into the wireless game?

[dpk501]

Originally Posted by bikinchris

I'm really a purist at heart. But after selling an eTap bike, setting it up and test riding, I'm hooked.

I'm thinking more and more about switching from Campy to etap...

I love the purist mentality but too many hand injuries have ruined any chance for an e-sports careers and also sore digits from the thumb lever.

[Louis]

Originally Posted by dpk501

I'm thinking more and more about switching from Campy to etap...

I love the purist mentality but too many hand injuries have ruined any chance for an e-sports careers and also sore digits from the thumb lever.

Here's a solution to that problem:

[livingminimal]

Was having this talk yesterday with someone that usually has a pretty good line on what campy is up to and said that wireless is "inevitable" sheepishly.

I think everyone will release wireless before they release 12s.

The question in my mind is how much of it will be rim brake? My Pegorettis would love wireless, rim brake campag...

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by livingminimal

Was having this talk yesterday with someone that usually has a pretty good line on what campy is up to and said that wireless is "inevitable" sheepishly.

I think everyone will release wireless before they release 12s.

The question in my mind is how much of it will be rim brake? My Pegorettis would love wireless, rim brake campag...

I predict anything from shimano will be wireless 'sorta'... Autonomous, 'smart' front der with battery. One RH shifter, programmable front der to shift when you get to cross chaning..ala XTR Di2..

I'll bet still rim brake..the 'pundits' predicted the pelOton would be all disc last year but looking at them this year, very small percentage, even for the spring, cobbled, classics. I think the 'big boys' still see the most 'racy' stuff as rim brake. And more simple also...think neutral wheels, etc.

[livingminimal]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

I predict anything from shimano will be wireless 'sorta'... Autonomous, 'smart' front der with battery. One RH shifter, programmable front der to shift when you get to cross chaning..ala XTR Di2..

I'll bet still rim brake..the 'pundits' predicted the pelOton would be all disc last year but looking at them this year, very small percentage, even for the spring, cobbled, classics. I think the 'big boys' still see the most 'racy' stuff as rim brake. And more simple also...think neutral wheels, etc.

Is the window of getting disc onto true "road race bikes" dwindling? Everything gravel/all-road coming out is disc...road RACE bikes on the other hand? Not seeing it. only QS is on disc at VaC. Didnt see much at TA or PN either...

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by livingminimal

Is the window of getting disc onto true "road race bikes" dwindling? Everything gravel/all-road coming out is disc...road RACE bikes on the other hand? Not seeing it. only QS is on disc at VaC. Didnt see much at TA or PN either...

Europe cares little about 'gravel/all road'. It's still a small part of the bike market. Win on sunday, sell on monday is MUCH bigger in Europe and even japan than the US. And even in the US, it's pretty small, 'GRoad bikes.

[livingminimal]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Europe cares little about 'gravel/all road'. It's still a small part of the bike market. Win on sunday, sell on monday is MUCH bigger in Europe and even japan than the US. And even in the US, it's pretty small, 'GRoad bikes.

Not seeing any disc at E3 this morning. QS is on calipers as far as I can see too. A slow/delayed wheel change in this environment is death though.

[dddd]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

What's inducing the current into the capacitor? The most common ways to induce a current are electromagnetic induction (which for this application means moving a magnet by a coil) or the piezo effect (which requires squeezing a piezo crystal with sufficient force to release enough charge for the desired current). In either case, all the energy has to harvested from the rider pressing/moving something. While all of this is feasible, I don't think you'd be able to fit it into the same form factor as, say an SRAM Blip or Shimano Sprint Shifter.

I got the impression that the electrical energy came from road vibration, not any movement of the rider's fingers, which would seem to be at too low of a frequency to be sufficient.
With constant back-and-forth motion from vibration, even over a very short stroke, a near-steady source of current could keep the capacitor or lithium battery charged.
It would be humorous to learn that using softer tires caused the power to dwindle (picturing Peter Sagan bouncing his front tire to generate power for an upshift).

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by dddd

I got the impression that the electrical energy came from road vibration, not any movement of the rider's fingers, which would seem to be at too low of a frequency to be sufficient.
With constant back-and-forth motion from vibration, even over a very short stroke, a near-steady source of current could keep the capacitor or lithium battery charged.
It would be humorous to learn that using softer tires caused the power to dwindle (picturing Peter Sagan bouncing his front tire to generate power for an upshift).

Oh yeah, that's a clever idea to use road vibration (and even handlebar motion for that matter)! So, kind of like automatic (auto-winding) watch, in a way. That sounds feasible (although the devil's in the details).

For those that don't wear their automatic watches on a daily basis, they make auto-winders to store the watch, which flip the watch back and forth to keep it wound. Will they have to make auto-chargers to store your bike in, that automatically vibrate the bicycle to keep the shifter capacitor charged?

[dddd]

Between lithium battery technology and microchip efficiency, today's electronics can go many years without a trip to the charger and still light right up.
Case in point, my very old Garmin cycling and running GPS computers, each of which have gone missing for some years, start up and show full charge when I finally find them! Yes, I said years.

[dddd]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

...as a casual observer, the idea of wires always seemed to me like an in-between phase, on the way to wireless. some of the shimano stuff just looked like temporary hacks, and not a refined product at all. if you're going to go electric, wireless would be the way to go...

I've been thinking the same thing for a while now, even with respect to visible unused cable ports in the frames.
It reminds me of my used-bike purchases, with haphazard wire and zip-ties leading out to a rear wheel sensor, get me my wire cutters, quick!

As for the brakes, will we see at least the front brake hose getting from the lever to the caliper hidden from view?
But as for traditional up-in-the-air brake cables, I'm all good with that!

[Kirk007]

Originally Posted by dpk501

I'm thinking more and more about switching from Campy to etap...

I love the purist mentality but too many hand injuries have ruined any chance for an e-sports careers and also sore digits from the thumb lever.

Been there, done that, not looking back. Love the look of Campy but even EPS aggravates my thumb. Etap works well, looks fine. For my hands function now trumps fashion.

[andrewsuzuki]

eTap is shown to be about 30-50% slower to shift than Di2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqTsxsly3pA

Although it's unclear if that's due to the overhead/latency of wireless communication, or a built-in buffer for actuating a front shift, or both.

I don't see anything wrong with wires myself, it's a one-time setup. I'd certainly rather have wires over bulky batteries sticking out of my derailleur (possible hit to aerodynamics?), and frankly it annoys me that people's preference for wireless seems to boil down to "dat clean aesthetic"

[Kirk007]

Originally Posted by andrewsuzuki

eTap is shown to be about 30-50% slower to shift than Di2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqTsxsly3pA

frankly it annoys me that people's preference for wireless seems to boil down to "dat clean aesthetic"

If I was racing I think I'd be on mechanical. My Dura Ace 9100 is lightening fast and precise, better than etap and the years of mechanical Campy mechs I used. But I'm not and etap quickness is just fine for pleasure riding, and I prefer the shifting feel over di2.

This I don't get though: "it annoys you" that some people like wireless due to aesthetics? Why do you care - it's their bike not yours, none of your business so why get bothered by it?

[bikinchris]

I'm just curious if a wired electric bike will be worth anything as an antique one day?