Yikes, car/driver runs down bike racers during race?

[Bruce K]

I put it in quotes for a reason.

Incidents feel like they are on the rise, especially those that appear to be intentional crashes, near misses, coal rolls, etc.

Whether it is the current 24/7 media need for sensational headlines or a fact of the changing times , I couldn’t say.

But it certainly feels like the negative events are growing in frequency and severity.

If that’s tinfoil hat thinking, in this case, I’ll wear it.

BK

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by Bruce K

I put it in quotes for a reason.

Incidents feel like they are on the rise, especially those that appear to be intentional crashes, near misses, coal rolls, etc.

Whether it is the current 24/7 media need for sensational headlines or a fact of the changing times , I couldn’t say.

But it certainly feels like the negative events are growing in frequency and severity.

If that’s tinfoil hat thinking, in this case, I’ll wear it.

BK

I suspect that, like you say, the rapid and wide spread of news can make it feel like road rage incidents against cyclists is increasing. But are they really? While my experiences may be different from others, I can say that over the years I've been riding, motorists have been getting less aggressive. Back in the '80s and '90s, I got a lot more honking and people leaning out their doors and yelling at me. It's been quite a few years since I've had anything thrown at me from a car. Today, I find that not only are drivers more tolerant of cyclists, some of them have even become courteous. Sure, there are still aggressive and downright malicious drivers on the road, but overall, I find things to be better today than in years past.

One big thing I've noticed is that decades ago, it was more common for teenagers to be cruising around with their buddies, with nothing to do but look for trouble. While there still are some of those today, I think teenagers now have so many other things to take up their time that they don't spend as much time just driving around aimlessly.

[glepore]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

I suspect that, like you say, the rapid and wide spread of news can make it feel like road rage incidents against cyclists is increasing. But are they really? While my experiences may be different from others, I can say that over the years I've been riding, motorists have been getting less aggressive. Back in the '80s and '90s, I got a lot more honking and people leaning out their doors and yelling at me. It's been quite a few years since I've had anything thrown at me from a car. Today, I find that not only are drivers more tolerant of cyclists, some of them have even become courteous. Sure, there are still aggressive and downright malicious drivers on the road, but overall, I find things to be better today than in years past.

One big thing I've noticed is that decades ago, it was more common for teenagers to be cruising around with their buddies, with nothing to do but look for trouble. While there still are some of those today, I think teenagers now have so many other things to take up their time that they don't spend as much time just driving around aimlessly.

I'll agree as far as the teenagers go. But they were generally harmless asshats. Whats going on today is a combination of risk from folks with a small tv built into their dash being distracted along with some psycopaths that apparently mean actual harm.
Another thing-I drive cars from the 90's. No driver aids. It shocks me when I drive the so's 2020 cx5-you don't need to do anything at all, really. It beeps when there's something in your blind spot, it emergency brakes if you really f it up, and it has adaptive cruise so you can just steer. Now, much of that isn't on in an urban setting, but it creates a mindset.

[joevers]

Originally Posted by ripvanrando

Evil needs no explanation, it needs to be extinguished.

Originally Posted by ripvanrando

It is my understanding that police are allowed to use force in such situations and yes, in my opinion as an ordinary citizen that use of deadly force is not unreasonable under the known facts. The fleeing criminal does not need to have another weapon, in addition to the vehicle. For those who find such an opinion off the rails, just take a deep breath. This isn't a matter of finding an explanation for the family, it about justice for cyclists and society as a whole. I am part of the 55% of Americans in favor of such justice.

Police already do execute people at a rate higher than almost anywhere else in the world and it has 0 effect on the rate that things like this happen.

[ripvanrando]

Originally Posted by joevers

Police already do execute people at a rate higher than almost anywhere else in the world and it has 0 effect on the rate that things like this happen.

Run people over, flee, and shoot at law enforcement?

What is your solution?

Your apparently tolerant attitude towards such heinous, felonious behavior has an effect, it is opposite of what you think. The police did a good job catching this madman with a long record. Hopefully, the courts give the proper sentence

[joevers]

Originally Posted by ripvanrando

What is your solution?

That's a great question. Working as a courier I've seen first hand the type of violence car culture breeds here. I've lost friends working and had weapons pulled on me by drivers convinced they're entitled to drive however they want to on every inch of pavement. That think slowing them down or inconveniencing them is violence and the only way to respond to it is violence

I still can acknowledge that giving an entire profession (one that abuses their spouses at a rate of 40%) the green light to publicly execute people they think committed a crime only continues a cycle of violence that leads to things like this.

My driving test was 10 minutes, a decade ago. When I renewed a year or two ago they checked my vision and that was that. Last year I was hit and run by a driver who got a title transferred for a restored vehicle and got it registered without even finishing filling out the form or proving insurance.

There are ways to keep behavior like this off the road that don't include execution by cop or life sentences. We're just living in a state that's only effective at causing harm, not preventing it. Maybe it's hard to imagine better. This doesn't happen in other places at the rate it happens here. If police and prisons were effective at stopping thing like this from happening, they would have.

[RoosterCogset]

Originally Posted by robt57

https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/19/us/ar...sts/index.html

Are cars sentient beings?

[glepore]

Originally Posted by joevers

That's a great question. Working as a courier I've seen first hand the type of violence car culture breeds here. I've lost friends working and had weapons pulled on me by drivers convinced they're entitled to drive however they want to on every inch of pavement. That think slowing them down or inconveniencing them is violence and the only way to respond to it is violence

I still can acknowledge that giving an entire profession (one that abuses their spouses at a rate of 40%) the green light to publicly execute people they think committed a crime only continues a cycle of violence that leads to things like this.

My driving test was 10 minutes, a decade ago. When I renewed a year or two ago they checked my vision and that was that. Last year I was hit and run by a driver who got a title transferred for a restored vehicle and got it registered without even finishing filling out the form or proving insurance.

There are ways to keep behavior like this off the road that don't include execution by cop or life sentences. We're just living in a state that's only effective at causing harm, not preventing it. Maybe it's hard to imagine better. This doesn't happen in other places at the rate it happens here. If police and prisons were effective at stopping thing like this from happening, they would have.

Bravo.

[ripvanrando]

Originally Posted by joevers

That's a great question. Working as a courier I've seen first hand the type of violence car culture breeds here. I've lost friends working and had weapons pulled on me by drivers convinced they're entitled to drive however they want to on every inch of pavement. That think slowing them down or inconveniencing them is violence and the only way to respond to it is violence

I still can acknowledge that giving an entire profession (one that abuses their spouses at a rate of 40%) the green light to publicly execute people they think committed a crime only continues a cycle of violence that leads to things like this.

My driving test was 10 minutes, a decade ago. When I renewed a year or two ago they checked my vision and that was that. Last year I was hit and run by a driver who got a title transferred for a restored vehicle and got it registered without even finishing filling out the form or proving insurance.

There are ways to keep behavior like this off the road that don't include execution by cop or life sentences. We're just living in a state that's only effective at causing harm, not preventing it. Maybe it's hard to imagine better. This doesn't happen in other places at the rate it happens here. If police and prisons were effective at stopping thing like this from happening, they would have.

What places in the world have you been? I have been all over the world, your imagined view of law enforcement in other countries is pure fantasy. Do you think this behavior would be tolerated in China, Russia, Poland, and country in Africa, any Muslim country, Japan, Thailand, any country in South America? Not long ago, the smallest infractions were punished in Europe. And you know what, people were civil. You want to point to Europe? When was the last time you were there? I have probably been there a hundred times, it is not what you think it is.

I don't think we could possibly agree and it makes no sense for us to discuss.

We both recognize that people commit heinous crimes. We disagree on the next steps. That is ok.

[robt57]

Originally Posted by RoosterCogset

Are cars sentient beings?

Title of thread of course not literal..

[ti_or_die]

First and foremost, it is a terrible and from all accounts, a purposeful and harmful tragedy. I haven’t checked today, however I hope that the cyclists are recovering.

Originally Posted by ripvanrando

…people were civil.

After reading some of the posts and pondering things, my immediate thoughts went to the lack of civility and respect for others that people seem to have. Perhaps lack of community-building over the years. The loss of implicit passing of morals and mores from older generations to the younger ones. I wonder how there is an escalation in violence so damn quickly.
Whenever I read about senseless stories like this, I cannot help but think that part of it is what I call ‘the Grand Theft Auto effect’.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by ti_or_die

After reading some of the posts and pondering things, my immediate thoughts went to the lack of civility and respect for others that people seem to have. Perhaps lack of community-building over the years. The loss of implicit passing of morals and mores from older generations to the younger ones. I wonder how there is an escalation in violence so damn quickly.
Whenever I read about senseless stories like this, I cannot help but think that part of it is what I call ‘the Grand Theft Auto effect’.

And on the other hand ... while there is a popular and sentimental notion that things used to be better in thepast and are only getting worse today, my memory is a bit different. I have plenty of recollection of violent and aggressive behavior decades ago, and as far as I can tell from what I've witnessed, things are actually better today. And object data supports that - statistics show that not only are overall crime rates lower today than decades ago, but violent crime rates have decreased even more. Civilized societies require that violent and anti-social behavior be curtailed, and modern advanced societies require even more peaceful cooperation between people. As our economies and way of lives has become more interlocked, violence has decreased.

As far as whether things really were better in earlier days, we should look at this Will Rogers quote:

"Things ain't the way they used to be - and probably never were."

Rogers was right when he said that 100 years ago, and he's still right today. Bad things don't happen more often today - we're just more apt to hear about them.

Will my words (or the data) convince anyone that there is less violence today than years ago? Probably not. People tend to believe what they feel more than what the data says. When we see and hear about recent events, we can feel fear and apprehension. But when we hear about events in the past, we don't tend fear them - after all, that's just history, and it's not happening now. But that doesn't mean that there wasn't real danger in the past, or that just because we feel danger today, it is any more dangerous than it was in the past.

[ripvanrando]

Originally Posted by ti_or_die

First and foremost, it is a terrible and from all accounts, a purposeful and harmful tragedy. I haven’t checked today, however I hope that the cyclists are recovering.


After reading some of the posts and pondering things, my immediate thoughts went to the lack of civility and respect for others that people seem to have. Perhaps lack of community-building over the years. The loss of implicit passing of morals and mores from older generations to the younger ones. I wonder how there is an escalation in violence so damn quickly.
Whenever I read about senseless stories like this, I cannot help but think that part of it is what I call ‘the Grand Theft Auto effect’.

You are onto something. You can't just break laws and get away. I am sure it goes much deeper into the passing of morals.

[smontanaro]

Originally Posted by Kingson

if he were smart he would be sober at the time of the attack, pulled over and feigned remorse.

then he'd get off with barely a slap on the wrist.

if you want to get away with murder, make sure you do it with an automobile.

Sober, don't flee, not required:

https://www.chicagoreader.com/chicag...t?oid=25446274

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Bruce K

I put it in quotes for a reason.

Incidents feel like they are on the rise, especially those that appear to be intentional crashes, near misses, coal rolls, etc.

Whether it is the current 24/7 media need for sensational headlines or a fact of the changing times , I couldn’t say.

But it certainly feels like the negative events are growing in frequency and severity.

If that’s tinfoil hat thinking, in this case, I’ll wear it.

BK

I believe 'incidents' are certainly seem to be on the rise. From everywhere, in all ways, cars, bikes, walkers, runners, motorcycles, etc., etc. Mean, ignorant, angry, oblivious, non-caring, etc, people..everywhere.

BUT, I don't think cyclists are any kind of unique 'target', just in the frag pattern.