According to NYC DOT, it's safe to cross a street while texting

[FlashUNC]

Originally Posted by fiamme red

Except that the "study" by NYC DOT is a manipulation of statistics, not science.

Pretty bold claim for what on read seems like a reasonable enough study of publicly available statistics. Care to elaborate on your view?

Originally Posted by cash05458

you call that science? Yep...Mendel stuff for sure...

I'm sorry Marie Curie was too busy looking at her phone to contribute to this study?

[cash05458]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

Pretty bold claim for what on read seems like a reasonable enough study of publicly available statistics. Care to elaborate on your view?



I'm sorry Marie Curie was too busy looking at her phone to contribute to this study?

then but of course...science says its fine to walk around looking at your phone on some of the world's most busy traffic areas...sure, why not...

[nooneline]

lol, people here want to blame the science for the fact that they're working really hard to misinterpret it.

[fiamme red]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

Pretty bold claim for what on read seems like a reasonable enough study of publicly available statistics. Care to elaborate on your view?

From the DOT "study":

It is of note that while observations reflect that 9-13% of pedestrians are distracted by a phone while crossing the street, only 0.2% of New York City pedestrian fatality reports reflect electronic distraction at the time of the crash. Cell phone use by pedestrians does not appear to be disproportionately contributing to fatal pedestrian crashes.

That's an unwarranted conclusion. Crash reports usually don't mention that the pedestrian was distracted, because police don't look through the cell phone records of a pedestrian hit by a car.

Peer-reviewed studies show clearly that pedestrians crossing the street while distracted are at much greater risk, e.g.:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...01457512003788

Results
Participants reported using mobile Internet with great frequency in daily life, including while walking across streets. In the virtual street environment, pedestrian behavior was greatly altered and generally more risky when participants were distracted by Internet use. While distracted, participants waited longer to cross the street (F = 42.37), missed more safe opportunities to cross (F = 42.63), took longer to initiate crossing when a safe gap was available (F = 53.03), looked left and right less often (F = 124.68), spent more time looking away from the road (F = 1959.78), and were more likely to be hit or almost hit by an oncoming vehicle (F = 29.54; all ps < 0.01). Results were retained after controlling for randomized order; participant gender, age, and ethnicity; and both pedestrian habits and mobile Internet experience.

Conclusion
Pedestrian behavior was influenced, and generally considerably riskier, when participants were simultaneously using mobile Internet and crossing the street than when crossing the street with no distraction. This finding reinforces the need for increased awareness concerning the risks of distracted pedestrian behavior.

[FlashUNC]

Originally Posted by cash05458

then but of course...science says its fine to walk around looking at your phone on some of the world's most busy traffic areas...sure, why not...

The report or "science" never says that. But don't let that get in the way of some online snark.

[cash05458]

yes...flash, we get it...cars do kill and ARE the killers...but still, stay off the friggin phone while walking around high traffic areas...it's like putting guns in a nursery school...doesn't take a genius or a scientific study...

[FlashUNC]

Originally Posted by cash05458

yes...flash, we get it...cars do kill and ARE the killers...but still, stay off the friggin phone while walking around high traffic areas...it's like putting guns in a nursery school...doesn't take a genius or a scientific study...

It does when DOT is making policy decisions about how best to minimize pedestrian injuries and fatalities. What's a better use of resources, telling people to stay off their phones, or encouraging better driver behavior.

As the study's conclusions point out:

People will inevitably be
distracted when they walk with mobile devices, or may be distracted in other ways. But, in line with New
York City’s Vision Zero policy, this common human error should not result in death.

Doesn't take a genius to understand that right?

[mt2u77]

If 9-13% of pedestrians are distracted by a phone at any given time but only account for 0.2% of fatalities, then phone use appears to make you SAFER. An absurdity, no? If there was no effect, wouldn't the rate of death be randomly distributed over the population, so you would expect 9-13% of deaths to involve phone use and 87-91% not. Instead, we have 0.2%, so what gives?

It's some combination of incomplete data (in most cases, no one really knows if a phone was involved or not, so it's not reported) and discrepancy of terms (I'm guessing the 9-13% was observed on a random sidewalk, not at the moment/location people actually get hit-- even people on phones are decent at paying attention at critical moments).

Either way, the main/only conclusion is that very few deaths involve a confirmed distraction by technology. How many involve unconfirmed distraction remains unknown.

[cash05458]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

It does when DOT is making policy decisions about how best to minimize pedestrian injuries and fatalities. What's a better use of resources, telling people to stay off their phones, or encouraging better driver behavior.

As the study's conclusions point out:



Doesn't take a genius to understand that right?

my point is this should not be a either/or thing...and to be honest, doesn't seem like NYC is doing very well about either/or...but that is prolly just the nature of the beast...jam too many rats into a certain sized maze and this is what you are going to get...

[fiamme red]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

It does when DOT is making policy decisions about how best to minimize pedestrian injuries and fatalities. What's a better use of resources, telling people to stay off their phones, or encouraging better driver behavior.

As the study's conclusions point out:

"People will inevitably be distracted when they walk with mobile devices, or may be distracted in other ways. But, in line with New York City’s Vision Zero policy, this common human error should not result in death."

Doesn't take a genius to understand that right?

The use of resources here is to show that crossing the street while distracted by a mobile device is not really dangerous, and that the practice shouldn't be strongly discouraged.

Sorry, but crossing a busy street while distracted by a mobile device is not a "common human error," as the DOT calls it. It's common human stupidity.

[fiamme red]

Originally Posted by mt2u77

If 9-13% of pedestrians are distracted by a phone at any given time but only account for 0.2% of fatalities, then phone use appears to make you SAFER. An absurdity, no? If there was no effect, wouldn't the rate of death be randomly distributed over the population, so you would expect 9-13% of deaths to involve phone use and 87-91% not. Instead, we have 0.2%, so what gives?

It's some combination of incomplete data (in most cases, no one really knows if a phone was involved or not, so it's not reported) and discrepancy of terms (I'm guessing the 9-13% was observed on a random sidewalk, not at the moment/location people actually get hit-- even people on phones are decent at paying attention at critical moments).

Either way, the main/only conclusion is that very few deaths involve a confirmed distraction by technology. How many involve unconfirmed distraction remains unknown.

This is an excellent logical analysis that shows the flaw in the DOT's argument.

And you are correct, the 9-13% were observed on a random sidewalk. From the DOT report:

In November 2017 DOT undertook a study of pedestrian mobile device distraction at three signalized intersections in Queens: Queens Boulevard & 44th Street, 34th Avenue & 30th Street, and Broadway & Hooper Street. The observer watched pedestrians crossing the street and noted if a pedestrian was distracted by looking at or interacting with their devices while crossing the street. Depending on the signal phase the rate of pedestrian distraction ranged from 10% - 14%, with a rate of 13% overall. The vast majority of pedestrians (87%) were not distracted when crossing the street.

[FlashUNC]

Originally Posted by fiamme red

The use of resources here is to show that crossing the street while distracted by a mobile device is not really dangerous, and that the practice shouldn't be strongly discouraged.

Sorry, but crossing a busy street while distracted by a mobile device is not a "common human error," as the DOT calls it. It's common human stupidity.

That's not what the report says at all. It makes clear distraction is an issue. But at least with current available data sources not as clear a contributor as other, more driver focused issues.

I'd suggest reading the link from earlier in the thread. It's not long.

https://www1.nyc.gov/html/dot/downlo...-be-deadly.pdf