Are you ready for another solution to a non-existent problem?

[old_fat_and_slow]

Ceramic Speed Driven direct-drive drivetrain which eliminates the chain.

https://www.endurancebusiness.com/20...train-concept/



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgo-yEaXDzA

You may now break into small groups and discuss.

Umm,... yer dang right I'm a retro-grouch!

[Idris Icabod]

I think it's kinda cool.

"Everything that can be invented has been invented" - Charles H. Duell, 1899.

[MattTuck]

I have actual solutions to real problems

[Mark McM]

Okay, I'll be first in with my prediction.

This drivetrain may see limited application on single speed bikes - but only after it has been beefed up to handle large torques.

It will never see the light of day on multi-speed bikes (or if it does it will disappear just as quickly as it appeared). There are too many issues involving the stiffness durability required for that toothed disc (and the ability to shift between tooth rings on the disc) which will require such a large and heavy system that the (minor) friction reduction will not justify its use.

While the Ceramic speed people have said that they have a prototype running on a velodrome, its not encouraging when they declared that they have running "all the way up to 45 kph".

[yinzerniner]

"Why would I want some doohickey that's unproven when I can just go by the old tried and true stop and reverse the wheel when I need to change gears? That Lucien and his dumb derail thingy can shove it."
-Alcyon team riders before the start Paris-Roubaix

https://www.velonews.com/the-drivetrain-wars

[RKW]

Old Man Yells at Cloud :Giles:

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by yinzerniner

Solution for a non-existent problem?

The problem trying to be solved is not non-existant. There are clearly losses in our existing drivetrains. However, they are trying to improve the efficiency of the most efficient multi-gear drivetrain yet developed with an overly complicated and heavy system (not to mention potentially fragile). They chasing diminishing returns in one variable by imposing excessive costs in other variables.

[unterhausen]

I'm sure this style of gearing has been used before in other applications. I wasn't aware that anything beat a chain and cog for efficiency. I think it's great that they figured out how to shift. Not sure I believe that a strong rider is going to do well with this system. There is a reason why drive shaft systems are not well regarded: flex makes them skip

[FlashUNC]

CeramicSpeed debuted this a year ago.

This year's is just an improved version.

[zmalwo]

Now the single tooth in contact with the driveshaft have to take all the torque instead of spread out on multiple teeth. the teeth disc have to be a lot bulkier and stronger to handle an average cyclist.

[unterhausen]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

CeramicSpeed debuted this a year ago.

This year's is just an improved version.

I didn't take it seriously a year ago because it didn't shift. That part of it annoyed me a bit. Now that it can shift, they may actually sell a few dozen.

[yinzerniner]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

The problem trying to be solved is not non-existant. There are clearly losses in our existing drivetrains. However, they are trying to improve the efficiency of the most efficient multi-gear drivetrain yet developed with an overly complicated and heavy system (not to mention potentially fragile). They chasing diminishing returns in one variable by imposing excessive costs in other variables.

Agree with everything you state. Meant to simply humorously point out that one person's "why mess with something" is another's "quest for perfection and innovation."

Yes, the current Ceramic Speed (or as another poster noted, debuted last year) drivetrain concept has all the shortcomings you've pointed out, but some of those could be solved while also adding other benefits not discussed.

A few other points:
-How do we know it's heavy, or heavier than current drivetrains?
-Why is it complicated? It looks pretty straightforward in terms of propulsion, power transfer and shifting.
-Absolutely it's diminishing returns, but so is EVERY SINGLE IMPROVEMENT EVER until development and production costs start to creep down with economies of scale.
-While it's fragile now I can see it potentially becoming more reliable than current systems since you're eliminating the derailleur and the possibility of chain slippage. If you encase the drivetrain and keep it lubricated (like a car's transmission) even further reliability and possibly aero gains can be achieved.
-At the same time this is still a colossal waste of R&D money and brainpower, but if it's also for marketing and awareness the effort makes more sense

[Tony T]

What next, disk brakes?

[Mzilliox]

how would this work? as soon as you add any torque to the frame, those tolerances are our of whack and the things is no longer in contact where it should be. theyd have to make the frame the stiffest riding thing in the world to offset torque that would render this non useable.

or do i not understand anything anymore?

[ultraman6970]

That thing has been around for a while and for a reason is not in the market yet.

I imagine they have to figure it out the torque part and make it cheaper?

Here is a video from 2018...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9gQ1KRhesM