Rivendell saved for now...

[Joe Remi]

Originally Posted by bward1028

I would say the priority would be to reduce staff, not cut pay across the board. Having one less employee is probably more cost effective, since you don't have to pay their benefits. Not to mention the huge loss of morale in reducing everyone's pay.

It would be better to lay people off than to let them "volunteer" a 40% pay cut, especially while still paying the owner a salary. California Unemployment pays ~60-70% of prior salary. They might make MORE money being laid off, and now when they do get laid off, they are going to get unemployment at like like 50% of what they originally made.

I agree with peanut.

This is a very particular example between one company owner and his main "since the beginning" employee, both of whom are nearing retirement age. I am confident the details of cutting Mark's pay vs. cutting a whole job were mutually agreed between them. Which is a perfect example of why this "let's advise someone who didn't ask" discussion is such a waste of time.

[bward1028]

Originally Posted by Joe Remi

This is a very particular example between one company owner and his main "since the beginning" employee, both of whom are nearing retirement age. I am confident the details of cutting Mark's pay vs. cutting a whole job were mutually agreed between them.

Sorry, but you should read the blog post more thoroughly.

Mark's cut back his pay 40 percent to reduce our payroll, but he seems to have cut his hours back about 10 percent. Spencer raised his hand to cut back as much, too. Robert and Jenny are down to 40 percent, too (related to not enough boxes to ship out).

that's 4 out of 12 people getting cut 40-60% (5 if you include Grant), and 2 of those with the most extreme cuts have the same job. 200% salary cut across the board. Better to eliminate 2 people and keep everyone else at their current rate.

Originally Posted by Joe Remi

Which is a perfect example of why this "let's advise someone who didn't ask" discussion is such a waste of time.

Honest question: Why do you keep coming back, then?

[bfd]

Originally Posted by Joe Remi

Sweet! Most of my bikes don't show enough post to make that work, but it would look great on the XO-1.

Agree. I have the same problem on my DS with a Campy C-Record seatpost. I barely have much seatpost showing and can’t lower the post anymore or the aero portion wouldn’t show! Nevertheless, I still have a “ fist full of seatpost” showing!

Good Luck!

[Joe Remi]

I read it very carefully, and responded to the thing being said here. Three of the people who took cuts have been there from the beginning and I am sure were part of the planning for this. The fourth lives in Sacramento and is looking to work closer to home, the commute is killing her.

You're welcome.

[Joe Remi]

"Honest question: Why do you keep coming back, then?"

I like the other aspects of the topic, and I like fact-checking BS. It's a hobby.

[bward1028]

Sounds like you like talking out of both sides of your mouth, too. "Between one employee and owner" to "4 employees blah blah blah."

I think you mean "putting spin on facts" not "fact checking BS."

I'm the one quoting from the post, you are the one posting conjecture, or at least non-public info. I understand that you think you have some sort of inside line on what's going on at Riv. I'm just saying, as a hypothetical owner of a hypothetical struggling company, i'd prefer the morale hit of laying off two people vs spreading that wage loss across a third of the company, and potentially torpedoing their unemployment earnings when/if the company goes down.

[Joe Remi]

Originally Posted by bward1028

Sounds like you like talking out of both sides of your mouth, too. "Between one employee and owner" to "4 employees blah blah blah."

I think you mean "putting spin" not "fact checking."

The comment I originally responded to mentioned one employee and one owner, so that's what I answered. If you want to discuss everyone in the blog post, it's 3 longtimers near Grant's age, and one youngster looking to change jobs. Got it?

[bward1028]

Ugh, your reading comprehension...

the priority would be to reduce staff, not cut pay across the board. Having one less employee is probably more cost effective

(implying firing one person is better than cutting a bunch of peoples salary. the "one less employee" part is implied to be vs. cutting pay for everyone)

Anyways, i'm just here to buy and sell bike parts on the classifieds, not get into long form reading comprehension arguments with people who clearly have more time to sit at a keyboard than I do.

[Joe Remi]

Originally Posted by bward1028

Ugh, your reading comprehension...

(implying firing one person is better than cutting a bunch of peoples salary. the "one less employee" part is implied to be vs. cutting pay for everyone)

Anyways, i'm just here to buy and sell bike parts on the classifieds, not get into long form reading comprehension arguments with people who clearly have more time to sit at a keyboard than I do.

And you can kiss my *** with the keyboard comment, boy. I don't work during the day and my evening shift is from home. We all have phones we can type on.

[raygunner]

Joe, your "fact checking" is simply installing anecdotal rebuttals and emotionally curated language. And adding a little benchmark switching.

As you mentioned you don't own a Riv...if you want to help Riv, why don't you buy a frame from them?!

[peanutgallery]

I employ the better part of a dozen people, this isn't how I'd ever treat them. I'd be living in a tent taking SNAP benefits before I would allow a 40% pay cut to happen. When folks rely on your decision to put food on the table for their families, it gives you perspective and a paternal instinct. If you work for me and do a good job...I go to bat for you. Timely pay is a big part of that, always pay your Bill's on time and in the agreed amount and you'll go far in life

At 40%, you're better off on unemployment. I would also give you 30-60 days pay, at a minimum...if I was ever in a similar situation. I worry about this sort of thing every year, one bad this or that and I too can get in a hole. Tough place to be

I get the feeling that you're arguing for the sake of arguing, so whatever. When you get done insulting moderators and other users because you're a contrarian by nature, think about this...I seriously doubt that taking a 40% cut in your current income would sit well with you

Originally Posted by Joe Remi

Oh come on. If the choice is cut pay or no pay, you do the former first. That's literally the responsibility leading to tough choices you ended this comment with.

[raygunner]

Joe, didn't you get one strike against you for your previously outburst?

Maybe it's time to take a walk & decompress. In the future, it might be better for you to only add your two cents on the RBW Owners Group.

[Joe Remi]

Originally Posted by bward1028

Ugh, your reading comprehension...

(implying firing one person is better than cutting a bunch of peoples salary. the "one less employee" part is implied to be vs. cutting pay for everyone)

Anyways, i'm just here to buy and sell bike parts on the classifieds, not get into long form reading comprehension arguments with people who clearly have more time to sit at a keyboard than I do.

Originally Posted by raygunner

Joe, your "fact checking" is simply installing anecdotal rebuttals and emotionally curated language. And adding a little benchmark switching.

As you mentioned you don't own a Riv...if you want to help Riv, why don't you buy a frame from them?!

I've bought half a dozen frames from them, plus that number again used. I buy and sell all the time because part of the hobby for me is to ride all the different types of bikes out there. I also regularly buy Riv parts for not-Riv bikes I bring home.

I'm currently contemplating getting the new Gus bike, or maybe the rumored 25th Anniversary model. Did you seriously think I don't buy Rivendells??

[Joe Remi]

Originally Posted by raygunner

Joe, didn't you get one strike against you for your previously outburst?

Maybe it's time to take a walk & decompress. In the future, it might be better for you to only add your two cents on the RBW Owners Group.

Look, if I'm being asked to not say personal crap then someone gives me personal crap, I'm going to respond. Unless the moderators ban me I'll choose to comment on whatever topics interest me, including dropper posts and gravel bikes. I won't comment on Rapha cuz I don't know what that is.

[FlashUNC]

I personally wouldn't be thrilled by my boss talking about any compensation change arrangements we've made on a public blog, especially if I'm looking for employment elsewhere.

Nothing like negotiating against yourself to have it out there your current compensation has suddenly been reduced by 40%. Talk about resetting your own market...