Materials (specifically steel), ride feel, and build details

[jasonification]

Prior to my current bike, I rode a Serotta made with Columbus SLX, which I've noted to be particularly springy (totally got me hooked on the steel bike train!). Ended up selling it because it was a little large for me.

Since then, I've been riding my Bob Jackson with 853 OS steel for close to 5 years now, so this bike has seen my varying levels of fitness/weight. For the most part I've enjoyed the bike as a very smooth ride.

With my recent weight loss (close to 50lbs), I've dropped from 210lbs to 160lbs or thereabouts. Climbing has definitely been more enjoyable. However on my most recent ride, I really started thinking about tubing and design. Namely, I wonder now if my lower weight/power output is perhaps not enough to elicit the same level of "springiness" that I enjoyed on the Serotta.

Previous threads on the forum have often cited builder's ability to elicit certain ride characteristics supercede build material (ie. an aluminium/carbon bike can be made to "feel compliant").

Given the trend for OS steel tubing in modern bikes, I am wondering if the forum can enlighten me:
Can a builder's touch elicit the "springiness" of old, thin diameter steel tubing (Columbus SLX, Reynolds 531) using modern day OS tubing? Would it require perhaps using different steel for different segments of the bike?

Thanks for entertaining my convoluted question!

[R3awak3n]

why not just use thin diameter tubing? still can get that and build a springy bike.

[nmrt]

while my experience is with titanium, it might still apply?
not even a single one of the five ti bikes (Seven, No22, Moots, DeSalvo, Dean) that i have had with OS tubing have been able to replicate the "liveliness/springiness/comfort" of my thin diameter ti bikes of the past.

not saying that the OS tubing bikes i have had were harsh (no, they are superb). but there is something to be said about the thin diamter tubing that in my experience has not been replicated. also, the builders were not tryign to replicate it anyway. stiffness is the name of the game these days. hence the OS tubes, 44 mm HT etc.

but this is a great conversation to have with a builder! i'd be curious what they say.

[jasonification]

Originally Posted by R3awak3n

why not just use thin diameter tubing? still can get that and build a springy bike.

What are some thin diameter modern day tubing? Haven't seen many..

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[jasonification]

Originally Posted by nmrt

while my experience is with titanium, it might still apply?

not even a single one of the five ti bikes (Seven, No22, Moots, DeSalvo, Dean) that i have had with OS tubing have been able to replicate the "liveliness/springiness/comfort" of my thin diameter ti bikes of the past.



not saying that the OS tubing bikes i have had were harsh (no, they are superb). but there is something to be said about the thin diamter tubing that in my experience has not been replicated. also, the builders were not tryign to replicate it anyway. stiffness is the name of the game these days. hence the OS tubes, 44 mm HT etc.



but this is a great conversation to have with a builder! i'd be curious what they say.

Yeah! Stiffness has seem to be the buzzword for the last few years..

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[R3awak3n]

Originally Posted by jasonification

What are some thin diameter modern day tubing? Haven't seen many..

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whatever every custom rando bike is built with now a days.

[El Chaba]

For a side by side comparison, I think my DeRosa Primato with Columbus EL oversize tubing rides quite differently than my DeRosa Nuovo Classico with TSX (standard diameter) or Professional with SLX (also standard). I find it a little hard to put a finger on it, but they are different...and all of these bikes are the same size and with the same geometry. So I think even small changes in tube diameter are noticeable. Having said this, one of the best riding bikes that I have ever ridden is my old Peugeot with light 0.5 mm Reynolds 531 sl tubing....and of course it is metric diameter so about.5 mm smaller than standard...That bike just has a great road feel.

[Yoshi]

Reynolds 853. Maybe Idependent Fafbrication?
But the holy grail for me was a BOO gravel bike. https://boobicycles.com/bikes/sl-g/

[robt57]

Well, there used to be Ultra Foco [Columbus]. I know Foco became Life at a point. Is there an Ultra Life is the question. Spirit HSS?

[David in Maine]

Originally Posted by R3awak3n

whatever every custom rando bike is built with now a days.

https://www.renehersecycles.com/prod...framebuilding/

[fmradio516]

Originally Posted by nmrt

while my experience is with titanium, it might still apply?
not even a single one of the five ti bikes (Seven, No22, Moots, DeSalvo, Dean) that i have had with OS tubing have been able to replicate the "liveliness/springiness/comfort" of my thin diameter ti bikes of the past.

I have the same experience with my Ti frame. It is incredibly stiff. So much that it makes me feel like ive gotten old and weak(this cant be true).

Originally Posted by robt57

Well, there used to be Ultra Foco [Columbus]. I know Foco became Life at a point. Is there an Ultra Life is the question. Spirit HSS?

This.

I have a modern Marinoni that I bought here which has Spirit and the tubing is definitely on the thin side.

[uber]

I think there are a lot of custom frame builders out there who can deliver the ride qualities you want, and likely in different combinations of material, tube diameter, wall thickness, etc.
The Peg Responsorium (stainless) felt to me as you describe as does Speedvagen. Pegoretti Marcelo and Big Leg Emma, less so as they feel stiffer to me. That is my total experience with steel frames. I would bet that Strong, DeSalvo, IF, Seven can all deliver what you would want.

[oldpotatoe]

Paging the various gen-U-ine frame builders on the forum..paging....

[Peter P.]

SMALL changes in diameter influence frame stiffness (or for the sake of this thread, "springiness") much more greatly than tube wall thickness.

Titanium has a different spring rate than steel, which is why it has a different feel than a steel frame with equivalent tube diameters, and why titanium frames typically have larger diameter tubes than "comparable" steel frames.

Framebuilders will make educated guesses based on your descriptions, and their experience.

I don't think you'll get the springiness of old 1" standard steel tubing with modern 1.125" modern OS. Reducing wall thickness reduces resistance to denting, and makes it difficult to weld or braze because the butted ends will lose strength from heating.

If you want that springiness of ye olde tubing, get a frame of ye olde tubing.

[Bob Ross]

Originally Posted by uber

I would bet that Strong, DeSalvo, IF, Seven can all deliver what you would want.

fyi Carl Strong stopped offering steel a year or two ago, he only builds Ti frames now (or carbon via his Pursuit Cycles offshoot).