Paint flaking on brand new frame

[ultraman6970]

That green frame with the clearcoat peeling is clear coat failure...

As for the blue frame that was posted at the beginning is hard to tell if the paint failed or is wear and tear and a painter well can claim that is wear and tear because there's no way for him to know certainly what happened but a wear and tear situation.

Nos saying that you can not get adherence problems due to lack of pre-paint work ok? So if the builder and painter want to get a way out of it, they can. Bi way to know.

I would do a video with duct tape on top and see what happens, paint should not peel... send that and with that you have a base to claim that the paint job is busted.


As for the green picture, that's clearcoat that started bubbling because the frame wasnt cleaned properly after the base coat, temperature problems, bad clear, mixing of chemicals in the clear are wrong, who knows. But since is powder coating my best guess is that the dude did not cleaned the frame right because shooting the clear coat, so if grease is under it if wont stick and will start peeling. Some clears can take sunlight better than other ones but at this point if that peeling happened after a few days or months then the painter screwed it up. That's not wear and tear. If it happens after a couple of years I would call that wear and tear and you can't complain about it. Fox is pretty easy tho.

[Tickdoc]

This post is a tough one for me to form an opinion on. All the chips look like places of wear, not paint merely flaking off.

I’ve got a colnago ct1 with paint peeling everywhere.....but I bought it used And the paint was peeling when I bought it. Add in I knew well in advance that those models had paint peeling problems.

I would probably feel different if I ordered it new.

I haven't gone through each response line by line, but what is the builder’s response to the wear?

[R3awak3n]

Originally Posted by Hilltopperny

This particular bike has been traveled with and has seen gravel/dirt and been ridden. Not everybody's bike riding habits over a few months is the same. I am not saying the paint shouldn't be durable, but if it's been shipped to different countries and enjoyed during travel then I don't think it's that crazy to have a few paint chips is it?

It looks to have been used for travel which likely means that it has been taken apart and packed up a few times?

The pictures I see can be consistent with a travel bike and normal wear and tear. I understand that good money was spent on it and all that, but I think that wet paint on a mixed terrain bike is the least durable solution and will be prone to chips and possibly flaking. I've experienced this before on other high end bikes with reputable painters, but it took longer than six months because I have a bunch of other bikes to ride.

My Duende cx bike has similar chipping on the top tube as well as a Zanc cx painted by Hot Tubes. I dont think anybody here would say that Dario or Toby didnt know how to paint or that his method was flawed? In all reality they were cross bikes that had mud, dirt and gravel/rocks thrown up at them and as far as I know there isn't a wet paint used on bicycles that is impervious to chipping under those circumstances.

I know I will remain in the minority here on this, but I am not sure that we should all be ready to grab our torch and pitchfork just yet. I personally would just touch up, ride and enjoy the beautiful bicycle and realize that it wasn't built for show, but as a tool to get out and enjoy. If the bike fits and rides well then have it powder coated in a few years for a more durable finish.

Sent from my LGL423DL using Tapatalk

I went back and looked at the photos and I see your point for sure. Really apart from the area by the fork TA, the rest does not look like anything but chips. My Cielo that is 2 months old has more chips than this bike already and looked brand new when I bought it. I don't really care and not something that bothers me and why I would just touch up this one and go on with my life but part of me understand the OP, I did not pay what he paid or wait the time he waited for that frame so he has a lot more invested in it than me

[fellowsun]

I appreciate the opinions and feedback. I think it's a reflection of where my mind is at too. 80% of me feels like I paid for something I didn't get and it rightfully deserves to be corrected, 20% feels like I don't want to care because I'm just enjoying riding the bike.

[prototoast]

Originally Posted by fellowsun

.

Regarding travelling with and riding the bike, it started flaking like this after the first ride. A road ride

Is it still chipping just as easily? The first ride is going to be when the paint is softest, and it'll chip easily. If it's still chipping just as easy, it probably was applied poorly. If it's more durable now, you rode it too soon before the paint was cured.

[pdmtong]

You may not get a remedy for this but pretty sure that if you touch up the paint and enjoy the ride a year from now it won't matter at all. It only matters right now. Which is a sign to exhale and apply energy elsewhere.

Yes I wouldn't be happy initially too but re-reading the opposing views has very insightful.

[unterhausen]

I know I'm the only one in this thread that thinks so, but $2300 for a wet painted bike is not enough. A warranty that covers relatively minor damage like this would drive the price up quite a bit.

I would say that "flaking" is not the right word. It's chipping, when hit with something.

[fellowsun]

Originally Posted by unterhausen

I know I'm the only one in this thread that thinks so, but $2300 for a wet painted bike is not enough. A warranty that covers relatively minor damage like this would drive the price up quite a bit.

I would say that "flaking" is not the right word. It's chipping, when hit with something.

So if I paid $3000 would that make my claim valid?

[Dino Suegiù]

Originally Posted by fellowsun

So if I paid $3000 would that make my claim valid?

I have always thought you have a valid claim as it is, regardless of money spent (since the frame is relatively new and custom to you)...$1500 - $2300 - $3000, whatever.

However I also do not think that unterhausen is making that kind of assertion, that "$3K = valid", at all. His point is fair, and really none of us actually know the cause of the issue, not having seen the frame and having only your account and the images you posted as our basis for comment.

My personal feeling from that "evidence" is that your claim is likely valid, but really the only negotiations that actually count are those between yourself and the builder, and then between the builder and the painter on your behalf (if the builder is even willing to stand by you vs the painter which, as Doug Fattic already pointed out, may not be the case). We do not know. Good luck.

[unterhausen]

Originally Posted by fellowsun

So if I paid $3000 would that make my claim valid?

The normal business model of builders is to just price the paint job in with no markup at all. It's one of the few businesses where that is the case. Most well-run businesses would figure they should charge you some integer multiple of the cost of the paint job. And if the customers weren't going to pay $3000 for a paint job, then figure out some other process. This is one of many reasons why so few builders actually make it long-term.

I expect your builder doesn't have a lot of experience in the area of disappointing paint performance. I'm not convinced the painter would consider it a failed paint job, but I would ask them. In any event, you're probably asking the builder to lose a decent sum on this bike. The builder doesn't have particularly good margins on this bike, so a full, no questions asked warranty covering paint chips under rough usage was not priced in, like it or not. I suppose it's a (probably unwitting) form of self-insurance on the builder's part.

It's not like you're asking the same thing from Walmart. But then again, everything Walmart sells has better margins than this frame did.

[fellowsun]

Originally Posted by unterhausen

The normal business model of builders is to just price the paint job in with no markup at all. It's one of the few businesses where that is the case. Most well-run businesses would figure they should charge you some integer multiple of the cost of the paint job. And if the customers weren't going to pay $3000 for a paint job, then figure out some other process. This is one of many reasons why so few builders actually make it long-term.

I expect your builder doesn't have a lot of experience in the area of disappointing paint performance. I'm not convinced the painter would consider it a failed paint job, but I would ask them. In any event, you're probably asking the builder to lose a decent sum on this bike. The builder doesn't have particularly good margins on this bike, so a full, no questions asked warranty covering paint chips under rough usage was not priced in, like it or not. I suppose it's a (probably unwitting) form of self-insurance on the builder's part.

It's not like you're asking the same thing from Walmart. But then again, everything Walmart sells has better margins than this frame did.

Guess I'm being naive. I would think if a builder works exclusively with one painter they would likely have some sort of vendor discount. Thinking it would be cheaper for them to fix the mistake than for me to.

It looks like it's been used roughly, but it hasn't been. This is exactly my point.

I will hopefully hear back from the builder soon and we can figure out a resolution.

[pbarry]

Bottom offer I would accept is a powder coat job/equivalent $$ from someone reputable. Builder will save time & $$ and can choose to split the cost with his painter--not your problem nor are his margins.

Hang tough, you should get what you paid for and the builder needs to up his game. Teachable moment.

[Doug Fattic]

I’ve been painting bicycle frames for over 40 years. I use clear disposable cups that hold the paint in the spray gun when putting on the final polyurethane clear coats. That way there is less chance of contamination. This is a paint that hardens by chemical action when the activator is mixed in just before spraying. Because there is a little left over when the job is finished, I set this cup with the unused paint aside until it hardens up before throwing it away. It usually takes about 2 (maybe 3) months for the paint in that cup to shrink to its final cured state (which is about half the size of when it was liquid). That is how long it takes for a paint job to be fully cured. Even after a couple of weeks the paint in the cup has hardly shrunk at all meaning it still has quite a way to go until fully cured.

When I look close at the damage, I see trauma induced small chips. Like unterhausen says I think “flaking” is the wrong term. That happened on the green frame when the clear continued to peel off past where the damage originates. Flaking is caused by improper painting methods while chipping is caused by something hitting or scratching it.

I’m going to continue to suggest that you go to the painter and request he do the touch up. He has the exact right color and hardening activator so the repair is not going to look bad like nail polish or not-quite-the-right-color Tester’s model paint. If you want to be a “reasonable customer” to the builder and painter (rather than a “difficult customer”), you will approach them with the idea that they touch up the small damaged areas 1st and see if that isn’t a satisfactory solution. Asking either one of those guys that are not making a living wage on what you paid for the frame and paint for a full redo is going to get a lot of pushback.

[fellowsun]

Originally Posted by Doug Fattic

I’ve been painting bicycle frames for over 40 years. I use clear disposable cups that hold the paint in the spray gun when putting on the final polyurethane clear coats. That way there is less chance of contamination. This is a paint that hardens by chemical action when the activator is mixed in just before spraying. Because there is a little left over when the job is finished, I set this cup with the unused paint aside until it hardens up before throwing it away. It usually takes about 2 (maybe 3) months for the paint in that cup to shrink to its final cured state (which is about half the size of when it was liquid). That is how long it takes for a paint job to be fully cured. Even after a couple of weeks the paint in the cup has hardly shrunk at all meaning it still has quite a way to go until fully cured.

When I look close at the damage, I see trauma induced small chips. Like unterhausen says I think “flaking” is the wrong term. That happened on the green frame when the clear continued to peel off past where the damage originates. Flaking is caused by improper painting methods while chipping is caused by something hitting or scratching it.

I’m going to continue to suggest that you go to the painter and request he do the touch up. He has the exact right color and hardening activator so the repair is not going to look bad like nail polish or not-quite-the-right-color Tester’s model paint. If you want to be a “reasonable customer” to the builder and painter (rather than a “difficult customer”), you will approach them with the idea that they touch up the small damaged areas 1st and see if that isn’t a satisfactory solution. Asking either one of those guys that are not making a living wage on what you paid for the frame and paint for a full redo is going to get a lot of pushback.

Thanks for your input. Ive heard back from the builder and that was his offer after discussing it with the painter. Their verdict was that it looked like normal wear and tear.

I guess in the end its my fault for not letting the paint cure fully before riding it